The Young Restless and Reformed may be surprised to learn that some Reformed Protestants do not consider the young and restless to be very Reformed. They might even be surprised to know that Reformed Protestantism exists outside Desiring God Ministries, The Gospel Coalition, and Acts 29 (but that is another matter). But the Old Settled and Reformed keep tabs on the younger crowd and the reviews are not encouraging.
Brent Ferry is an OPC minister who is not particularly old and since he is a husband and father is fairly settles. But as an avocation he plays drums for a band and has a feel for youth and restlessness. Despite his demographical profile and musical talent, he is not much impressed with the recent Crossway book by Mark Driscoll and Gerry Breshears, Doctrine: What Christians Should Believe (2010). The recent issue of the OPC’s magazine, New Horizons, has Ferry’s review of Driscoll and Breshears. Here is an excerpt:
Driscoll is sometimes identified as part of evangelicalism’s resurgent Calvinistic movement. Besides puffs and quotes from Reformed authors, however, the book does not reflect the contours of Reformed thought at all.
For example, the authors omit the covenant of works (p. 177). They argue against limited atonement in favor of hypothetical universalism (p. 267). They condition regeneration upon faith and repentance (pp. 317, 436). There is no clear affirmation of unconditional predestination. The book excludes the fourth commandment from the abiding moral law (pp. 198-99), yet has a high view of the Lord’s Day (pp. 381-84). It also contains pictures of Christ (pp. 208, 244). . . .
In short, Doctrine is a hodgepodge of various theological trajectories. When the authors compare Noah’s drunkenness to “a hillbilly redneck on vacation” (p. 184), they reveal the nature of their contextualization project, which is to promote a Christianity that embraces irreverent adolescence. Theologically, this book does does rise above that standard, but not by much.
83 Comments
Chris D. asked:
“Concerning MG Kline’s view of the Sabbath:
(1) is the view delineated above what MGK held at his ordination, or is that his view from later in his career?
(2) do you see MGK’s view as basically the same as the “continental” or Reformed view of the Sabbath?”
Regarding # 1: I have no idea what Dr. Kline’s view on the sabbath was at the time of his ordination. However, the description of his sabbath views I offered in my previous post is defended in his book “Kingdom Prologue,” and I believe he taught this view in the classroom. (I took several classes from him in seminary.) While I believe his view of the sabbath would be within the bounds of the Reformed Faith (at least more broadly considered), yet it is clearly contrary to the system of doctrine taught in the Westminster Standards, which were the standards he subscribed to in his ordination vows (see, for example, WCF 19.2-3; 21.7-8; LC # 93, 98, 102, 116-121; SC # 41, 58-62). I am not aware of Dr. Kline ever registering an exception to these confessional teachings of the Standards with his Presbytery or getting permission from his Presbytery to publicly teach and propagate these non-confessional views (though he may have done so; I don’t have access to such records).
Just a clarification (lest readers think I am taking this occasion to bash Kline): Dr. Kline was a brilliant biblical scholar and (on a personal level) a lovely Christian gentleman. His lectures and writings were instrumental in bringing me to a reformed and covenantal understanding of Scripture. But on this particular issue I believe he was outside the bounds of the confessional standards he had professed to receive and adopt at his ordination. (I think he probably believed his views to be within confessional bounds, but given the confessional references listed above I don’t see how this could be the case — at least on a plain-grammatical and historical-theological reading of those standards. If he held these views at the time of his ordination I don’t believe he was insincere or intentionally dishonest when he took his ordination vows.)
Regarding # 2: Whether or not Dr. Kline’s view of the sabbath would fall under the “continental reformed” view is an interesting question. But given that he was an OPC minister who subscribed to the Westminster Standards (and not to the Three Forms of Unity), it is a question that is not relevant to the issue of whether or not his sabbath position was consistently confessional.
Geoff W.
Luther talks about the devil with a familiarity unusual for non-charismatics. Explanation?
Lily,
Thank you very much for your excellent, timely, thoughtful words and the apposite quote from Luther. You have given me some wholesome food for thought on a windy Irish Sea swept Friday afternoon. Sometimes I wonder if the supposed Northern English trait of ‘calling a spade a spade’ is truly in my genes, getting me into bother and hence my initial words in this post, but I prefer straight talk as opposed to subtle word plays and games and I haven’t got the brains to engage in subtleties.
I must say the Lutheran theology which is represented in OL has given me a renewed respect and appreciation of the great man Luther and the way he spoke in such down to earth, Saxon hued phrases which may have won him few friends but his honesty and pithy words still resonate today. He contrasts so much with today’s silver tongued, clever preachers who pack in many quotes from theologians like Calvin and Luther and yet their church’s rock and roll and are in so many ways contrary to the simple and yet profound means of grace found in the Reformed and Lutheran churches.
We need a book to highlight and explain the differences between these churches in their doctrine and approach, one which may further stimulate debate between the YRR and the Reformed and hopefully draw more like DJ into the Presbyterian or Lutheran understanding rather than the synthesis which is being given some credence by some who should know better.
MM –
Re: “Luther talks about the devil with a familiarity unusual for non-charismatics. Explanation?”
I am baffled by the question. It seems odd to be unfamiliar with the subject of the devil since the bible addresses it many times and in many ways.
Re: “Charismatics”
The problem is in the disconnecting of the Holy Spirit from the means of grace. Charismatics can often be summed up in Luther’s observation that they swallow the Holy Spirit “feathers and all.”
Enthusiasts claim that the Spirit is giving them powers or “gifts.” He certainly is able to. The question becomes – is what they are enthusing about real? Is it from God? Far too often, the actions and words of those who proclaim their own calling and gifted-ness shows that they are their own authority in matters of faith and practice and their claims of the Holy Spirit is subjective in extremis. The objective scriptural basis always proves more reliable and a stronger safeguard against doctrinal perversion than the subjective basis.
Driscoll claims he was called at age 19 and pellmell set off to preach and plant churches. No seminary training where his claims could be tested and proved. No seminary training where a systematic theology would provide him checks and balances. In the historical fashion of American itinerant preachers, he declared himself called, plys his views upon all who will listen, founded a non-denominational sect, and hob-nobs with other loose cannons. Not to mention the fact that Piper and Mehaney have been his mentors in recent years – need I say more?
Paul UK -
Thank you for the kind words. I am thankful you found Luther’s counsel edifying and appreciate straight-talk over the glib. Like the Reformed, the Lutherans suffer from inroads and encroachments from the worst in evangelical and charismatic influences. I am thankful for the areas that the Reformed and the Lutherans overlap. It makes for happy company here.
May I offer the link to the online site of Luther’s commentary on Galatians for those weather days on the Irish sea that might keep you indoors and in need of fresh air?
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/gal/web/gal-inx.html#cts
Lily, it’s a good point of course to say that institutional training should provide the sort of checks and balances the enthusiastically inclined need. At the same time, from my own experience I also found that enthusiasts did a fairly good job of going through the seminary motions only to go out and practice the religious equivalent of bloodletting. My suspicion is that even a Driscoll with real credentials would still be more interested in putting on a show than administering Word and sacraments.
Lily, I’m baffled at your bafflement. Luther talks about the devil with a good deal of frequency. That’s just an observation without any intended pejorative tone.
Geoff: I could have phrased it differently, I was expecting you to say you didn’t have knowledge of MG Kline’s Sabbath views, possible exceptions at time of his ordination. I wasn’t yet born when MGK was ordained, doubt you were either. Something to look into, and btw, MGK was ordained in Presbytery of NJ.
Further, while it’s obvious that the Westminster Standards view of Sabbath differs from that of the the Three Forms of Unity, what I was trying to get at, I think Kline’s mature view was in harmony with the continental view. Now as to the nub of that, a ministerial candidate for/in the OPC can present the continental view as his view, and thus take exception to the many details of the Westminster view. It would be up to the presbytery examining him to allow or not allow that view by accepting or not accepting that candidate. Might never happen but it could… And in fact, I now have an itch to look into the details of the receiving of ministers from the CRC back in the early days of the OPC (R.B. Kuiper and CVT come to mind!)
I too would say that Dr. Kline was a christian gentleman and so very knowledgeable of the Scriptures. It was both daunting and inspiring to watch him work from the Hebrew OT in the classroom.
-=Cris=-
Oh dear – I wasn’t clear – MM
No pejorative tone or otherwise was taken. I’m still baffled why anyone would be surprised that Luther would be familiar with the devil and addressed the devil and his wiles with frequency since the bible does too. The devil and his minions are real and like mice, they leave a trail of clues when they’ve infested your home.
Zrim,
I didn’t mean to come off as sounding like education is the answer to everything. IMO, it provides a lot of general background information on a man. It does provide a filter and it does help set apart those who are truly called. I do understand the fact that we will always have pastors who run amuck and will be our lot until Christ returns.
IMO, the example of Driscoll and his ilk (eg: SGM) is that it is an historical American phenomena and also one that shows a different spirit than those who are willing to go to seminary and be part of a denomination – eg: under authority, accountable to a confession, and so forth. They shun the pentecostal seminaries too, so I can’t help but find the fact that they are a law unto themselves suspect/rocky ground to begin with.
Luther talks about the devil the way he does because he is a medieval man (no pejorative), not because he has charismatic leanings.
MM said:
“Luther talks about the devil with a familiarity unusual for non-charismatics. Explanation?”
I didn’t say he was charismatic, but I understand why a cursory reading might impute that to me. I really have no agenda – I’m just a guy wondering.
Brian, you may have a point that he is a “medieval man” in his thinking. Yet his reformed contemporaries did not emphasize the devil as much. Are you saying that he and his contemporaries are, intellectually, representative of different eras in this respect?
What is your point about the devil MM? I am curious as to why you are so curious. Remember, I don’t take what you say personally, so, let it rip.
I did’nt see the “I’m just a guy wondering” before I posted my last post. So, what you are saying is that there was no cause and effect to your passing thought? Just one of those independant fleeting thoughts?
John Yeazel
Criminologist. TV producer. Blues writer.
Can’t a guy just be in wide-eyed wonder? When I was about six I asked my mother what “time” is. She gave me one of those answers parents say to just make a kid go away, but I knew it was an unsatisfactory answer.
IT’S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT MAKE ME GO “HUH”!
Sorry for raising my voice. I think Brian may be on the right track.
MM,
You always cater to the big-whigs; can someone say schmooze!!
Yeazel, I don’t even know who the bigwigs are, so I pretty much treat everyone the same. I may be a suck up when I’m trying to get a free book, but that’s all about the book.
MM,
I just read that Ralph Reed used to hobnob with Jack Abramoff (and collected something like 6 million dollars in contributions from him). In fact, he got all his Christian coalition groupies to boycott and protest in papers etc., competing casino’s in area’s where his friend Jack didn’t have his heavy hand under. That way all the casino money would flow into Jack’s hands. Was it the devil that made Ralph do that? I also noticed that Darryl just mentioned his name and did not go into what the scandal consisted of. Instead his just said this: “But that Reed himself experienced the sort of fall from grace that Colson had in the quest for a politically relevant faith was one lesson that many evangelicals ignored. Too much political capital had been invested; too many social problems needed to be fixed.”
Don’t correct my big-whigs; that word has an interesting etymology. Although big-wig may be spelled without the h. Your response reminded me of what I had just read this morning.
Beware of those on moral crusades.
“Don’t correct my big-whigs”
Is Chris Christie is a big Whig?
Why do you ask? Is he your brother or a politician you like and drink beer with?
Thanks. This is exactly what I wanted.
Full Review of Doctrine: What Christians Should Believe -Mark Driscoll and Gerry Breshears, Reviewed by: Brenton Ferry is now posted http://opc.org/review.html?review_id=348
Thanks for the link, Joe. I wish that review was required reading. Here is a quip you may appreciate where Strange Herring addresses Driscoll’s hubris and people’s gullibility with a link to what he is referring to:
“Mark Driscoll, founder of the 600 million strong Mars Hill Church, will have a book out in January that will answer all your most disgusting questions about things intimate. Lock up your daughters and anesthetize your sons: it’s showtime!” http://tinyurl.com/3psnvy8
Excerpt from the link promoting Driscoll’s latest prostitution:
“… the “Real Marriage” church campaign will be launched on Jan. 3, 2012, with an 11-week sermon series by Driscoll, a 10-city tour, and a major mobilization of the 500-church strong Acts 29 Network. [Driscoll's book, Real Marriage: The Truth About Sex, Friendship & Life Together will be released on Jan. 3, 2012.]
Resources will be provided, including small-group video curriculums, participant guides and promotional videos.
Free additional research will be available for ministry leaders, including sermon preparation at PastorMark.tv, his recently launched website highlighting Driscoll’s observations on theology and culture.”
A nauseating snippet of a sign of our times:
“Pastor Mark Driscoll is the founding pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle and is one of the world’s most downloaded and quoted pastors, according to The Resurgence.
He was named one of the “25 Most Influential Pastors of the Past 25 Years” by Preaching magazine, and his sermons are consistently No. 1 on iTunes each week for Religion & Spirituality.”
Dr. Hart, you might find this interesting… There is a hard rock band called Thrice. The only believer in the group is the singer, Dustin Kensrue. The band’s last album is titled, Beggars, and the title track derives much from Luther. All in all, thoughtful lyrics. In reading a recent Christianity Today article on the band, I learned that the singer/guitarist is now a “worship leader” at Mars Hill Orange County. http://orangecounty.marshill.com/pastors-staff/
Talk about mixing the two kingdoms!
(full disclosure – this won’t deter me from thoroughly enjoying Thrice’s new album!)
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/music/interviews/2011/pastdragons-september20.html
BTW, the singer is the lyricist as well.
I tried to post a comment with some links in it… says it’s in moderation. the Curse of Lily may be upon me to. Here it goes again:
Dr. Hart, you might find this interesting… There is a hard rock band called Thrice. The only believer in the group is the singer, Dustin Kensrue. The band’s last album is titled, Beggars, and the title track derives much from Luther. All in all, thoughtful lyrics. In reading a recent Christianity Today article on the band, I learned that the singer/guitarist is now a “worship leader” at Mars Hill Orange County. http://orangecounty.marshill.com/pastors-staff/
Talk about mixing the two kingdoms!
(full disclosure – this won’t deter me from thoroughly enjoying Thrice’s new album!)
@DJ- Thrice is one of my favorite bands of all time. They actually have a newer album that was just released last month called “Major/Minor.” But, as a member of Pastor Ferry’s church (and bassist in one of his bands), I have to side with him and Dr. Hart on the topic at hand. I guess I’m just an OPC fan-boy. By the way, Dr. Hart, I look forward to meeting you on the 28th.
Lane – I realized after I posted that I made it sound like Beggars was the latest album. Bought Major/Minor last week and love it! It has a 90′s grunge feel running throughout the album.
On a similar note, in a recent TGC article, Ronnie Martin is not stating that he has essentially traded in one rock stage for another rock stage, from the clubs to the “church”. Another sigh. Ronnie has made some amazing electronic synth-pop over the years (with only one “Christian” album). Just seems obvious that someone with celebrity in a certain area within the KOM should not be placed in a position in the KOG that will cause them to receive the same for doing the same thing.
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2011/10/06/view-from-the-other-side-of-the-mic/
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2011/09/07/where-rock-stars-go-to-die/
On a similar note, in a recent TGC article, Ronnie Martin is not stating that he has essentially traded in one rock stage for another rock stage, from the clubs to the “church”. Another sigh. Ronnie has made some amazing electronic synth-pop over the years (with only one “Christian” album). Just seems obvious that someone with celebrity in a certain area within the KOM should not be placed in a position in the KOG that will cause them to receive the same for doing the same thing.
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2011/10/06/view-from-the-other-side-of-the-mic/
DJ, thanks for the tip but please don’t be offended if I continue to listen to Moderat, Thom Yorke, and U2.
I won’t be offended! But please don’t get offended that if I don’t like the fact that this OPC church has a picture of Piper on their website and that they link to SGM!
http://www.covopc.org/Main_Folder/Resources.html
I somehow don’t think you will…