I have to chuckle whenever I hear 2k critics assert that 2kers are silencing the church such as R C Sproul Jr. has (thanks to Erik C.):
At their worst, however, R2K theology can silence the prophetic voice of the church. While many R2K advocates would be comfortable with individual Christians speaking to the great moral issues of our day, the church is forbidden to do so. When the state punishes a landlord for refusing to rent to fornicators, the church cannot speak. When the state engages in empire building, waging unjust wars across the globe, the church cannot speak. Worst of all, when the state uses its God-given sword to protect those who murder the unborn, the church cannot speak.
What RC fails to mention is what the church is called to say. That is always the question that critics of 2k skirt with haste on their way to placing the doctrines and commandments of men ahead of God’s word.
But if he really fears being silenced, he should see how the young left does it. In point of fact, most 2kers are simply asking for the rank and file to have a listen while critics are using different tactics.
Old Life 
It is telling when someone equates ceasing political speech with silence. Perhaps Sproul Jr. has forgotten of those olden days in the US of A when the gospel was political. After all, it achieved such great things, like Prohibition, and, well that’s all that comes to mind…
I wonder why these Reformed-politicos never got the memo that the Moral Majority is dead and gone. I know that we like to be old fashioned, but c’mon, you have to draw the line somewhere. I mean, what did Jerry Falwell ever do for Sproul Jr.?
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Wish he had said, “The churchleaves the garden for the wilderness and sets up the itinerant camps from which proclamation of the Gospel.” At least the imagery would have been better. When you speak jungle-ese, I think the sound wouldn’t be distinguishable from the rest of the mess.
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Wow, sorry. Bad English due to mobile.
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I think I spotted Stelly and his Chomskyite pals in that video.
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“May we who are Reformed ever affirm this radical truth—there is one King, and one Kingdom.”
RCjr ironically points out one of the problems with the way the debate is framed. Nobody believes in just one kingdom. Nobody. The Ligonier people should have flagged that one.
It is like in systematics where you cannot just talk about “the covenant” and make any sense.
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Mad Hungarian: Prohibition is a dead issue, but there was a big secular reason to support it back in the day: the antisocial behavior of many post-1860s Roman Catholic immigrants.
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“When the state punishes a landlord for refusing to rent to fornicators, the church cannot speak.”
I work for a landlord. I can’t wait to put that question on our rental application. We would need to define the term to 90% of our applicants. And policing the act after they’ve moved in will be a hoot.
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Funny,
Aren’t the same churches that want to “speak out” against the unjust government the same ones that fly American flags at their churches? So do we endorse America or do we not?
At least 2K doesn’t leave me confused.
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“May we who are Reformed ever affirm this radical truth—there is one King, and one Kingdom.”
I guess Van Drunen was just wasting paper on those 500 pages of 2K thinking throughout Christian history.
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My mom actually sent me the link to that article. She’s new to the P&R world and may not have learned yet that R.C. and R.C. Jr. have, (ahem), different emphases.
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Nate,
Could be they endorse the principles this country was founded on, not the policies of the current government. Of course, if “unjust wars” and imperialism are the criticisms, not sure the country ever had a clean record on that (just ask the Native Americans or Mexico or Spain).
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It seems to me that the difference between Hart and Junior comes down to how they define church. I don’t only mean the difference between visible and invisible. Even though we as private Christians support the killing, we don’t do it as the institutional church even though we are part of the church organic?
Imagine what would have heppend had the Magisterial Reformers became martyrs instead of leaning on the magistrates to get the best gradual compromise they could get? I mean, it’s one thing to sacrifice yourself individually (as one member of the organic church) but what would happen to God’s plans if they had not made the adjustments necessary to maintain magisterial support for their newly founded institutions? Without the appearance of continuity with the sacraments which came before, what remains of any authority to exercise the keys?
I mean, what good would Luther or Calvin being a martyr have done anybody? No more good than was done by the deaths of Grebel and Manz. (It was their lack of patience in waiting for the politicians which made the entire problem their fault) Jesus was not a martyr, and even if He was, there is no need after that for following His example in that way, especially if we have the right attitude, the correct motives, when we welcome Constantine aboard, or when we as private Christians do our duty to overcome evil with evil, and never for ourselves but for others….
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And if prophetic voice is so precious and silence so wicked, what could WCF 31.5 possibly mean?
Synods and councils are to handle, or conclude nothing, but that which is ecclesiastical: and are not to intermeddle with civil affairs which concern the commonwealth, unless by way of humble petition in cases extraordinary; or, by way of advice, for satisfaction of conscience, if they be thereunto required by the civil magistrate.
Who writes and affirms this kind of thing who also is so desperate to be culturally and politically relevant?
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Cletus,
Possibly, but still doesn’t get them out of the quagmire involved with being a
transformationalist“prophetic voice” to the government. Plus, whatever would it mean for the Church to endorse a Nation’s ‘principles’? That’s like arguing for a biblical theory of economics… oh wait, they already do that too…LikeLike
Zrim, don’t make Mr. Murray’s mistake. Buy a revised edition of the Standards. That quote now comes from 31.4.
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Funny, it was just a few weeks ago that I came across that exact entry. I summarily decided to never again read RC for an explanation of, well, pretty much anything.
This entry really showed his lack of Presbyterian bearings. I mean, if you are connected to other churches in a denomination it really won’t do to have Voices of Prophets popping up all over the place outside of the denominational confession and possibly in contradiction to others in the denomination. But if your bearings are more like “I’m a guy who says important stuff” then such things don’t get in your way.
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Darryl, slow down, I’m not OPC quite yet. I’ll get up to revised speed once I am.
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