Devin Rose is one of the many apologists in the Roman Catholic world — a guy who was agnostic, became evangelical, dissatisfied with evangelicalism, and then took the plunge into the Tiber. If you want to hear his “testimony,” go here.
One thing to be said for what follows is that Rose implicitly admits the difficulty that he and other apologists face when the message from the bishops (even the pope) is not exactly what brought him to Roman Catholicism. So if you’re going to appeal to Protestants, you need to figure in Vatican 2’s equivocation:
Here are the four reasons you should evangelize Protestant friends and family with the fullness of the truth:
1. Future Souls
I have a Protestant friend who had two children then got sterilized. He and I had lots of discussions about the Catholic Faith and Protestantism. I told him at one point contraception and sterilization were sinful. He got angry.
But he also began to desire having more children. He was something of a providentialist and said that “God will miraculously give us children if He wants to, in spite of the sterilization.” I told him to get it reversed.
A year or two later he decided to reverse the sterilization. A short while later they conceived again and had a son. Then conceived again and had a daughter. So they have two older children and two little children! Sharing the fullness of truth in the Catholic Faith resulted in two new souls being created by God, destined for eternity with Him. Almost all Protestants embrace contraception and sterilization, which is really sad and not what God wants.
Note that this friend is still Protestant. He didn’t become Catholic, at least not yet. I hope he does, but I am thrilled that they opened up their marriage to God blessing them with more children.
2. The Sacraments
Protestants have baptism and marriage but not any other sacraments. God instituted seven, including the Eucharist, so that we could receive Him body and blood, soul and divinity, as well as Confirmation to be strengthened fully in the Spirit, and Confession to reconcile us to Himself and His Church. They are missing out on these.
They also miss out on consecrated virginity for the sake of the Kingdom, which Jesus in Matthew 19 spoke of and Paul did in 1 Corinthians 7. God wants His children to consider all vocations, not just marriage.
Through the sacraments we receive God’s grace in abundance.
3. Bigger Cups!
It is true that everyone in Heaven will be filled to the brim with God’s love, but some people will have bigger cups than others. Here on earth we can, with the help of His grace, become holier and holier, more and more like Him, so that our cups are enlarged. In the Catholic Faith these opportunities abound; we have the fullness of the means of sanctification.
Protestants want to become just like Jesus. They want the biggest cup possible. But they are operating outside of the ordinary means of increasing their cup’s volume.
4. Danger of Hell
It is true that God is not bound by His sacraments and can save anyone He likes. It is also true that Protestants have valid baptisms (by and large) and so receive the Holy Spirit and are regenerated, being born again, from above, to newness of life. However, it is also true that they are relying on God to work in an extra-ordinary way. He set out the way He wanted us to assure our salvation by giving us His Church, with rightful leaders, sacraments, Tradition, and protection from error of her doctrines.
Protestants eschew all those things and so in a sense test God to save them in spite of it. He is so merciful that He can and no doubt will, but Protestants are following the Faith on their own terms, not the way that God planned it.
What happens when a Protestant, after being baptized, commits a mortal sin? Their soul is in peril, and they cannot avail themselves of Confession. They have to confess directly to God and hope that they have perfect contrition to be forgiven. They are essentially gambling with their souls, though most don’t know it (invincible ignorance).
Bigger cups?!? We know how Erik will fight that reference.
We are a long way from Fulton Sheen.
Cup size > hat size?
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“They are essentially gambling with their souls, though most don’t know it (invincible ignorance).”
Protestants are gambling? Funny coming from a guy whose denomination doesn’t even know what game it’s playing. Devin thinks he’s playing World Series of Poker Texas Hold’em. Bryan’s playing Bridge (no body plays that game anymore, right?). Jason is playing Beer Pong (given his podcast and soul-patch). Pope Francis, however, is busy playing a vigorous game of Go Fish.
If Salvation is a game, a gamble, why should I fall in with the Roman Church? Seems like they lost the rule book a long time ago. Should’ve taped it to the top of the box.
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What I get when I click on the american catholic truth society link. I must be on a list.
Spooky.
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“Jason is playing beer pong.” Nice one.
The arguments RC apologists employ keep me ever secure in my Protestantism. But that makes me an anti-Catholic, according to Jason. Worst podcast ever to quote Comic Book Guy.
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“some people will have bigger cups than others”
Is that something like those who work more and then get grace to clean up their works so that in the end they get more crowns with more works than those who work less?
a little extra, even though those with less won’t mind because they won’t notice?
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Speaking of the call – millions of Philippine Roman Catholics are waiting for the Pope to arrive next week. Leading up to that they came out 1,000,000 strong to see the “cross of the black Nazarene” come through the streets today and thousands rushed to kiss it because of its “supernatural powers”. One died of a heart attack and over 1,000 were treated for scrapes and bruises.
http://news.yahoo.com/man-dies-catholic-parade-manila-ahead-popes-visit-052015316.html
Roman Catholicism continues to be a false religion, the Pope is its head, and the proponents within it are its prophets.
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Particular-Baptist James White was slated to debate Devin Rose on Moody Radio’s Up for Debate program but apparently Rose wimped out and now won’t debate White. Much like Scott Hahn, Rose is a coward and knows he wouldn’t stand a chance.
Rose’s book reviewed by Turretin fan.
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php/2015/01/06/devin-roses-video-brief-response/
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shoulda wordpress tagged erik charter
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golf anyone?sorry, ec.
i’m out.foreLikeLike
We are a long way from Fulton Sheen.
Oh, Darryl, you’re so the Bishop Sheen of Presbyterianism. Even Paul Crouch’s Protestant Channel used to how Bishop Sheen’s “Life Is Worth Living.”
You need a show too. Catholicism Sucks, and So Do You.
Mind you, I don’t want to go to Hell. But if Heaven is Darryl G. Hart and his henchman “Erik Charter,” viewing his YouTube clips and listening to your horrible liturgical anti-music, I’m asking God to include me out of you “Elect.”
No offense, Darryl & “Erik,” but you’ll miss me in Old Life Heaven a lot more than the rest of us will miss you.
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AB
Posted January 9, 2015 at 8:28 pm | Permalink
golf anyone?sorry, ec.
i’m out.fore______________
Mr. Hello I Must Be Going meets Darryl’s Junkyard Dog
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Meanwhile, Romish idolatry kills people.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a87580b83d0d4fe58c5c304d4be5cae7/man-dies-catholic-parade-manila-ahead-popes-visit#
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Tom, love these two cats, dh and ec.
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Tvd, you win, game show boy:
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Sorry for the double tap. I was in a hurry.
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It’s an old story, someone get the callers a new producer. Their website ranking stinks.
Gonna skip DR, thx anyway (emoticon).
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900+ comments on republication was dragging us down. Er rallied since then:
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Marriage as a sacrament in Protestant denominations?
That helps build credibility.
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“Radio Maria”
Nice to see its all about Jesus…
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“Become an Apologist!”
“Sign up to get armed with the tools and knowledge you need to defend your faith with confidence and eloquence. Bonus: Get your free, two-hour training video on how to get your Catholic book published!”
Bryan should offer a course like this. It would read like the most entertaining computer manuals on the market today.
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Rose – Sharing the fullness of truth in the Catholic Faith resulted in two new souls being created by God, destined for eternity with Him.
Erik – Way to help God out. He says “thanks”.
No contraception is “the fullness of truth in the Catholic Faith”?
And we thought the Baylys were the only ones who were all about sex.
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Rose – They also miss out on consecrated virginity for the sake of the Kingdom, which Jesus in Matthew 19 spoke of and Paul did in 1 Corinthians 7. God wants His children to consider all vocations, not just marriage.
Erik – I thought he just told us the fullness of truth in the Catholic faith was helping God create new souls?
How does consecrated virginity help do that?
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Rose – It is true that everyone in Heaven will be filled to the brim with God’s love, but some people will have bigger cups than others.
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Rose – Here on earth we can, with the help of His grace, become holier and holier, more and more like Him, so that our cups are enlarged. In the Catholic Faith these opportunities abound; we have the fullness of the means of sanctification.
Erik – Someone call the Obedience Boys with this news. It will resonate.
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Rose – Protestants eschew all those things and so in a sense test God to save them in spite of it. He is so merciful that He can and no doubt will, but Protestants are following the Faith on their own terms, not the way that God planned it.
Erik – Wow, this is still pretty good news for Protestants and may even falsify some things that Bryan aka “we” have said.
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I’ve always been for equal opportunity regardless of cup size.
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Tom, you’d better get with the papist program or I hear purgatory will be a bitch for you. Or not, ’cause maybe the hippie pope will cancel all that. But who knows?
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“It’s just a question of how cleavagey you want your cleavage.”
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Seth – Protestants are gambling? Funny coming from a guy whose denomination doesn’t even know what game it’s playing. Devin thinks he’s playing World Series of Poker Texas Hold’em. Bryan’s playing Bridge (no body plays that game anymore, right?). Jason is playing Beer Pong (given his podcast and soul-patch). Pope Francis, however, is busy playing a vigorous game of Go Fish.
Erik – That’s an awesome comment.
We have some nice new guys here of late.
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ec, seth is among my favorite commenters, this one sealed it for me. he’s been around a little while, i think:
agreed, he nailed it here too.
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B – One died of a heart attack and over 1,000 were treated for scrapes and bruises.
Erik – This must be what Bryan was advocating when he was talking about loving the truth into death.
This post & comment string are on fire. The holiday break recharged a lot of batteries.
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Tom – Mind you, I don’t want to go to Hell.
Erik – You’d better ask Bryan if your Catholicism is good enough.
Don’t get your hopes up.
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Seth/AB –
This has got to be the craziest birthday present any pope has received, at least since Pope Sergius III got that trireme full of Numidian prostitutes.
agreed, he nailed it here too.
Erik – LOL. Agreed.
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“some people will have bigger cups than others”
I once heard a priest say that Adolph Hitler might get a thimble. (This is Roman Catholic Universalism at its finest).
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Erik: This post & comment string are on fire. The holiday break recharged a lot of batteries
Roman Catholicism is THE BIGGEST PROBLEM in Christianity and in the world today.
Calvin describes the relationship of “the papacy” to “the Church”:
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2014/08/calvin-entire-church-is-polluted-by.html
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The world, John?
Whoa.
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AB,
Of course it is didnt you get the memo. The RCC and Obama are tied. Some of this is approaching alex jones level conspiracy stuff.
Btw the cup thing is taken from Therese of Lisieux. I dunno why it is being derided – many Reformed espouse differing degrees of glory for the saints – Edwards (no big fans here I know) wrote a whole thing on it.
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We are friends Cletus (http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/05/gresham-machen-friend-to-catholics), but much more work remains.
I thought you were Texas, not MO, unless there are two JY’s that hang around DXP
From stalker AB (ask katniss w),
Machenfan
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Andrew, I’d dare say that the RCC that Machen knew is somewhat different (significantly different, in many ways) from the RCC that Machen knew.
Don’t allow an anachronism like this one to cloud your thinking.
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Cletus, you are the one who did not get the memo. Historically, when Jesus fully, clearly, explicitly stated that the disciples were not to claim authority for themselves, that’s all that Rome has done. Rome has done precisely the opposite of what Christ taught.
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John, wouldn’t think of it. Nice hearing from you.
Peace.
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Bearded Spock Tom,
I feel guilty calling you game show boy. I come bring to bring you a link of pennance.
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lame fox, “the cup thing is taken from Therese of Lisieux.
Therese of Lisieux. Not Therese of Avila? Who knew!?! (and where do you get the scorecard?)
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AB
Posted January 10, 2015 at 10:53 pm | Permalink
Bearded Spock Tom,
I feel guilty calling you game show boy. I come bring to bring you a link of pennance.
Thanks, AB. That was nasty and it did hurt me, because I hold you with both regard and affection.
I hold Darryl and “Erik” that way too, which disturbs them greatly and I suppose it should, so they seem to inflict their petty cruelties as some sort of religious obligation. Although if I were Elect like you guys, I’d want to be kind to all the non-Elect in this life, since they’re so screwed in the next.
FTR, I think Bob Barker cheated you, the bastard.
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Tom,
To heal your pain:
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Tom,
If you want people to love you, you need to be nicer.
This is “getting people to love you 101” — something that narcissists usually miss.
The kid presenting the trophy doesn’t get it.
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http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2014/12/30/italian-writer-stirs-hornets-nest-with-doubts-about-pope-francis/?s_campaign=crux:email:daily
“First, it can never be said enough that Pope Francis has invited a robust and open debate about issues in the Church, which certainly includes his own leadership. When someone voices reservations, therefore, it’s not an act of defiance so much as one of obedience.”
If only Bryan were so obedient.
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Thanks,Tom. We really need to work on your understanding of
election:
PS, I mean, Thomas, Thomas seems on board with us reformed. You should be too, methinks.
If I’m off, we can ask RC Sproul. He’s a big Thomas (not the tank engine) fan.
And golfer.Love that Violin music, E!
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Hahaha what’s the first google hit I find?
At least it’s not Bryan Cross, if he had wrote it, I’d really have a laugh.
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lol @ Catholicism being the biggest problem in the entire world today! Bugay has reached new levels of hysteria. AB is in his purest form and Erik Charter is flaming everyone and anything that annoys him. I don’t know where Daryl found you guys. Damn entertaining though.
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For what it’s worth Ken, I’ve been consistent over time. Roman Catholicism is “the big lie”, and it has been for a long time.
http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2011/02/popes-against-jews-part-3-positing-big.html
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kW, we are the guardians.
Providence.
Enjoy.
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Called to cooperate (when will Jason and the Callers heed their holy father?):
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Pope Francis, the Dwight D. Eisenhower of world religious leaders.
Religion is good. Get one, don’t use it to promote violence, doesn’t matter too much which one you get.
This & John’s list are raining on Bryan’s parade.
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After all, Jesus did come to establish himself as just one of several viable religious options for mankind. I could just see him sitting around, rapping with Mohammed & The Buddha, patting each other on the back.
No, actually I can’t see that.
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Erik, true! worth a re-post
I keep that list nearby, for safe keeping. Yeazel, shout out to you, bro!!
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I wonder if Protestants can sign up for this service, to hedge their bets:
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D.G.,
And I thought the Mormons were ambitious in their ministry to the dead…
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watching kW try to thread the needle between being acceptable amongst us and the stellmanites is almost as much fun as watching the callers bob and weave and every move their pope makes.
almost..
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Don’t forget Balthasar and Vatican 2:
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The BC here does not stand for Bryan Cross (but the bishop of Chicago appointed by Pope Francis):
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