Yet another conversion account with these un-Francis like asides from a former Dutch Calvinist:
I also realized that there was actually no real Protestant faith in itself. The Protestant faith was founded on a protest against a faith, the Catholic Faith. Why would I ever want to part of a “church” that was actually no church at all; one that was racked by division and founded on protest!
The blindness that had always covered me was now gone. I saw that there were countless Protestant denominations, and that they all disagreed with each other on at least one important point of doctrine. This defied the very nature of Truth itself, and rendered all of them imperfect. I finally saw that there must be an authority to clear the air, which I now understand is the See of Peter.
But these questions soon evaporated into joy:
Towards the end of the Vigil, when I saw a number of people receiving their First Sacraments, I knew God was calling me to do the same thing. Mother Church was opening her arms out to me, and even though I knew many crosses would come my way if I ran to Her, I could not resist Her love. Family members of mine would shun me, professors would shake their heads as I had received prestigious scholarships in the Reformed Theology department, my future would be so uncertain, and friends would laugh, but it didn’t matter anymore.
Why doesn’t the fine print of conversion include mention of a stop in purgatory?
Purgatory (Lat., “purgare”, to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God’s grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.
The faith of the Church concerning purgatory is clearly expressed in the Decree of Union drawn up by the Council of Florence (Mansi, t. XXXI, col. 1031), and in the decree of the Council of Trent which (Sess. XXV) defined:
“Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has from the Sacred Scriptures and the ancient tradition of the Fathers taught in Councils and very recently in this Ecumenical synod (Sess. VI, cap. XXX; Sess. XXII cap.ii, iii) that there is a purgatory, and that the souls therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar; the Holy Synod enjoins on the Bishops that they diligently endeavor to have the sound doctrine of the Fathers in Councils regarding purgatory everywhere taught and preached, held and believed by the faithful” (Denzinger, “Enchiridon”, 983).
Further than this the definitions of the Church do not go, but the tradition of the Fathers and the Schoolmen must be consulted to explain the teachings of the councils, and to make clear the belief and the practices of the faithful.
Temporal punishment
That temporal punishment is due to sin, even after the sin itself has been pardoned by God, is clearly the teaching of Scripture. God indeed brought man out of his first disobedience and gave him power to govern all things (Wisdom 10:2), but still condemned him “to eat his bread in the sweat of his brow” until he returned unto dust. God forgave the incredulity of Moses and Aaron, but in punishment kept them from the “land of promise” (Numbers 20:12). The Lord took away the sin of David, but the life of the child was forfeited because David had made God’s enemies blaspheme His Holy Name (2 Samuel 12:13-14). In the New Testament as well as in the Old, almsgiving and fasting, and in general penitential acts are the real fruits of repentance (Matthew 3:8; Luke 17:3; 3:3). The whole penitential system of the Church testifies that the voluntary assumption of penitential works has always been part of true repentance and the Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, can. xi) reminds the faithful that God does not always remit the whole punishment due to sin together with the guilt. God requires satisfaction, and will punish sin, and this doctrine involves as its necessary consequence a belief that the sinner failing to do penance in this life may be punished in another world, and so not be cast off eternally from God.
Venial sins
All sins are not equal before God, nor dare anyone assert that the daily faults of human frailty will be punished with the same severity that is meted out to serious violation of God’s law. On the other hand whosoever comes into God’s presence must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His “eyes are too pure, to behold evil” (Habakkuk 1:13). For unrepented venial faults for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin at time of death, the Church has always taught the doctrine of purgatory.
Can you really be so happy about the uncertainty that awaits 99.9% of those who have to make, grace-assisted of course, satisfaction for their sins? If perfection is necessary, how can the imperfect ever be perfect? Protestantism may seem like a legal fiction. But Rome’s fiction is moral. Alien righteousness matters and this convert doesn’t seem to know that her welcoming mother church not only rejects but condemns such teaching.
Who shall ascend the hill of the LORD?
And who shall stand in his holy place?
He who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not lift up his soul to what is false
and does not swear deceitfully.
He will receive blessing from the LORD
and righteousness from the God of his salvation. (Psalm 24:3-5 ESV)
Notice what makes a “real Catholic”:
“I marvel. I admire. A masterfully intricate wall rosary, handmade by my husband with over 10,000 beads, is nailed to the family room wall. A painting of the Holy Family hangs over my children’s play kitchen set, and ultra-Catholic looking statues rest on the piano. A stack of Catholic devotionals and a rickety old chaplet sit next to my prayer chair. Wow. I’m definitely Catholic – and I’m raising a really Catholic family!”
And how sensuality is really what rules: “the gorgeous religion”
Realistic? Do tell: “In the waiting room of the clinic hung a realistic-looking crucifix…”
“I knew that the religion I encountered in California was truly beautiful…” (aka gorgeous)
“And the beauty of the liturgy was just breathtaking…”
Paul wrote of silly women and sensuality for good reason.
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The amount of head-shaking I did while reading the linked conversion account has hurt my neck.
I understand her annoyance at the divisions of Protestantism, but that’s no reason to convert to a religion that blatantly disobeys God and His law:
Exodus 20:3-6 – “Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.”
This is some really basic stuff here, yet the Catholics completely disregard it, as do some Protestant denominations. I know Catholics will argue that they aren’t worshipping their “saints,” but what about the whole “graven image” thing? It pretty clearly says you aren’t supposed to make any of those, and you aren’t supposed to bow down to them. Nevertheless, at mass, the Catholics bow down to statues of Mary, and they have statues of Jesus on the cross everywhere. I don’t remember the Jews ever being told to have a statue of God the Father in the temple, so why would you make a statue of Jesus and put it in your church building?
I remember asking a group of Catholics why they prayed to Mary, and they asked me if I ever asked my own mother to pray for me. Of course, I said yes. They responded that they are doing the exact same thing – asking Mary to pray for them. Small problem, though – only God is omnipresent. My Mom is alive, so I can ask her to pray for me. Mary is no longer with us, so she can’t hear their pleading. Even if they aren’t worshipping her (which it looks like from the outside), they are wasting their breath.
Back to this conversion story – why the heck would anyone want to convert to a so-called Christian religion that can’t even get the most fundamental rules right? The 10 commandments aren’t up for discussion – screwing those up is a clear departure from Christianity. Please, make it stop.
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Funny how cradles don’t go mushy over mother church:
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cw, if you want a gorgeous religion, sign me up for the Church of England. Best choral music on God’s green earth. Arguably the best monarchy in history as head of the church — just finished The Crown. And it’s priests and bishops dress funny too. At least British monarchs can dress in civilian clothes. Not sure why the curia can’t update their fashions — coming alongside the modern world and all.
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Bryan, ding.
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These freaky converts. I have yet to meet a Protestant who’s based their faith on any awareness of Catholicism whatsoever. And yet these apologists think people believe *in reaction to* the Catholic Church? Please. Also, for anyone familiar with Mormonism, this woman sounds an awfully lot like Joseph Smith in her flaky earnestness. Just saying…. Where are the Roman converts whose Rosary fixations are not wince-inducing? Not Hahn or Kreeft, for crying out loud. Their accounts are high school sophomoric, at best. David Mills? One notch higher, but still cult-like in his Mother Church Knows Best hook-line-and-sinkerism. Sola Scriptura is hardly less a leap than Mother Mary, no matter what the starry-eyed Rome Knows Best say to the otherwise.
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jm, ring a ding a ling.
Here‘s another for your list:
Christian life as antiquarianism.
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How did your encounter with Rome’s views on purgatory and indulgences go?
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if a modern Catholic and a modern Protestant could hop in a time machine and travel back to the early Church, which of the two would feel more at home?
Well, since the Orthodox had the Patriarch of Jerusalem, you know where Jesus ministered, no one from the Western churches feels more at home than the Orthodox. Christianity is an Eastern religion.
But change that question around. Who feels more at home in Purgatory? That’s easy.
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Did you convert to this?
BTW, isn’t that a reason for clergy to marry? Hard not to see gray in the give and take of conjugal “bliss.”
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“if a modern Catholic and a modern Protestant could hop in a time machine and travel back to the early Church, which of the two would feel more at home?”
***So I’ll just take the question literally. It depends on how early, I imagine. Very early Christian worship would have no doubt borrowed the structure of synagogal worship–blessing of the name of God, praise, confession of sins, intercession, and, lastly, glorifying of God for His work in history. I haven’t been to a protestant service since I was 6 or 7, so I don’t know if your services mimic this basic structure. Let’s assume they do. So then what would indicate the at-homeness? It would seem to be exterior issues–all chanting, no music, icons, incense.
But what about after the break with Judaism? The Christian synaxis of synagogal assembly combined with the Eucharistic service (which was most likely a borrowing of the kiddush) formed the foundation, no doubt. Again, I don’t know what Protestant communion/Lord’s Supper looks like, but would a Protestant be shocked by this service? I ask because I don’t know. Again, I have to imagine it would simply be the external theological expressions the service that would be problematic (idolatrous).
I’d feel at home simply because ethnic churches usually make outsiders feel like outsiders, so I’d no doubt feel like an outsider having traveled back in time and all. American Orthodox churches are usually warm and inviting; I blame the Protestant converts.
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Justin, not sure about the synagogue. Read about it sometime ago. But my sense is that Protestants think long sermons dominated synagogue worship. You’d think it had to without the altar or sacrifice.
Is Orthodox identity so wrapped up with “the church Jesus founded”?
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“But my sense is that Protestants think long sermons dominated synagogue worship. You’d think it had to without the altar or sacrifice.”
***There’s more to it than Scripture and preaching. What I outline above obviously includes more than Scripture and preaching only. Again, a rough structure would be: Profession of faith, prayer of 18 blessings, readings, sermon, priestly blessing. The early Christian service would resemble this closely: Profession of faith, prayers of intercession, readings, sermon, priestly blessing. Throw in the liturgical calendar (for both Jews and Christians) and readings and sermons would correspond and would also highlight the conscious understanding of history (eschatological history for Christians) within the service. There were some 20+ expressions of Judaism in the 1st Century, so one isn’t going to find any purely distilled “Jewish service.” I mean all of this descriptively and not apologetically.
“Is Orthodox identity so wrapped up with “the church Jesus founded”?”
***Yes, but my sense is that that identity is more concerned with theology and not with externals (though externals come into play when symbolism is important to communicating proper theology). Salvation is union with God (which is why the legal/forensic narrative is downplayed in Eastern services and its theology), and is this role that the Church plays in offering Her Mysteries to believers–the Spirit unites us to the Son who unites us to the Father, the source of life itself. Again, I offer this as a description of self-understanding and the Church’s claims, but not as an apology. I imagine you’ll find Orthodox who think the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom is the service the Church has always used, but this is silly. Again, one can see in it the basic structure of the liturgy outlined above, but one can’t claim that they’re identical. The Liturgy of Saint James is the earliest Liturgy, I think, and it was probably developed in the 4th Century. I think it’s still the main liturgy in the Syriac Church.
Now if you’re asking if the Orthodox can be nauseatingly triumphalistic about being THE Church, oh man, it can be unbearable. It’s why I avoid apologetics. In fact, I doubt anyone beats us in this area: combine a heavy sense of nationalism with correct theology, and your jaw would ache for aeons!
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Justin, thanks.
Look at all the ecumenical dialogue that transpires when Christians don’t pretend to have all-of-me piety — that is, when they have a life.
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Converts need to remember where they put their trust:
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Where conversion, apologetics, and transformation meet:
No sense of living in mortal sin, being outside the church, not having access to grace through the sacraments. No worries about purgatory or hell. Become a Roman Catholic and join the biggest Christian team.
Oh my Allah!
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Why don’t converts ever tout this road to salvation?
Remember, only on certain days can you acquire a plenary indulgence.
Otherwise, indulgences are partial (and confusing):
And we are how many years from Luther’s 95 Theses? Lutherans and Roman Catholics together? psshaw.
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Interesting. I attended a Catholic wedding sometime around 2002 in which 50 years of indulgence were granted to man and to wife.
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