Have These Guys Never Heard of Bandwagon Jumpers?

Published on by D. G. Hart

Thanks to John Fea for a reminder of Chris Gerhz’s aid to the anti-hype cause:

I’d happily entertain attempts to persuade me that if Christians want “to have impact and effect on a society [they] must lead from the center of culture and not from the periphery.” I guess I’m wary of this “creeping New York-centrism” for several reasons. Just a couple:

• That — in the case of King’s and Metaxas — it’s so closely tied to a specific political and economic philosophy. In the student newspaper interview quoted above, Thornbury acknowledged the difference between Christianity and ideology, but immediately followed that statement with this: “But also, it is the genius of Christianity that has given inspiration to the animating ideals of what has been the best of the American traditions. What we regard as the key ideas of conservatism are all downstream from Christianity.”

Fine — but those waters have historically fed liberalism, socialism, and other ideologies as well. If politically progressive evangelicals come to New York looking to act as Hunter’s “faithful presence,” will their conservative neighbors seek out alliances with them?

• More importantly, privileging Christian engagement with culture at whatever serves for that blink of history’s eye as the “center of the universe” seems to have little biblical warrant. I suppose you could build such an elitist theology of cultural engagement around Paul’s conversation with the philosophers on the Areopagus or the apostles’ encounters with political and military officials, but I don’t see any indication that early Christians leaders (let alone Jesus himself, who talked about being salt and light while standing on a mountain in an obscure province) viewed such evangelism as having greater “strategic” importance than the spread of the Gospel on the “periphery” of that culture. (Or even that they believed in being “strategic,” since early evangelists were “scattered because of the persecution” that followed Stephen’s stoning or simply “sent out by the Holy Spirit.”)

From jumping on the New Calvinist bandwagon to bowing the knee to the Big Apple, you might think that folks who believe in divine sovereignty and Christ’s Lordship would be more skeptical about claims to greatness.

29 thoughts on “Have These Guys Never Heard of Bandwagon Jumpers?”

  3. Fine — but those waters have historically fed liberalism, socialism, and other ideologies as well. If politically progressive evangelicals come to New York looking to act as Hunter’s “faithful presence,” will their conservative neighbors seek out alliances with them?

    John Fea teaches at Messiah College and they got that anabaptist thing going on.

    http://www.messiah.edu/departments/peace-conflict/index.html

    The students aren’t, but I make it the faculty is pretty much made up of Obama voters. Or soon will be–O’Sullivan’s Law, dontcha know. They could probably use a Calvinist who hates Republicans over there. 😉

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  4. But Tom, Obama won’t run in 2016. Our first president set a precedent. Unless you use the term Obama voter losely, in which case, I know that , and only post so as to follow up to you with out an emoticon (insert emoticon). Such behavior is frowned upon, doncha know.

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  6. AB
    Posted March 30, 2014 at 6:50 am | Permalink
    But Tom, Obama won’t run in 2016. Our first president set a precedent. Unless you use the term Obama voter losely, in which case, I know that , and only post so as to follow up to you with out an emoticon (insert emoticon). Such behavior is frowned upon, doncha know.

    Calling people filthy names is OK but emoticons are banned. Whatever you say, bro. Nice Bearded Spock Universe you got here. :-[O>

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  9. Those are ugly Yankee fans. But perhaps I’m being redundant.

    It’s time for America’s game. Hope is so resilient that even Cubbies indulge. Batter up!

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  10. AB
    Posted March 30, 2014 at 2:49 pm | Permalink
    Tom, there are four lights!

    Ah, you do hear me afterall.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_eSwq1ewsU

    I gave it a chance around here, but the arguments are not honest. Still, I think I can argue Calvinism honestly to those who hate it. Better than most of those who profess it. 😉

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  11. AB
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 1:05 am | Permalink
    you done well, T

    there are four lights
    the only way to end a heated debate when one person continues to repeat a lie in the hopes that the other person will believe it is true.

    lates

    Exactly. I’m disappointed at the quality of the lies here. I didn’t expect lies atall when I came here, Ponyboy, let alone such shoddy ones. Calling people names, distorting what they say. Poor show. mate, poor show.

    JG & I would have got along just fine, though. Something got lost in the translation.

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  12. Of course you get along better with those who hate Calvinism, Tom, what is remotely surprising (or interesting) about this??

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  14. D. G. Hart
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:02 am | Permalink
    vd, t, self-righteousness from a lapsed Roman Catholic? Talk about falsehood.

    Keep guessing. I came here for some Bible truth and all I got was ugly.

    Darryl, you really gotta get right with Jesus. This ain’t it. Back off, bro, especially with calling me “VD.” That’s filth.

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  15. Tom, you don’t wear the victim mantle well. Tell us what you believe and to whom you are attached church-wise(“keep guessing”). Then we can talk. Until then expect your anti-2k, pro-Rome potshots to be answered in kind. And this ain’t Sunday school, this is Darryl’s corner of the pub. Act like Eddie Haskell and expect to be treated like Eddie Haskell.

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  16. Tom, my boss and I enjoyed star trek as kids, so it makes for light humor when we are in stressful times. But w don’t talk star trek in the board room.

    Google is great, that Picard meme is famous. I watched this TNG episode when it aired, I was 10 Y.O.

    “when it aired in 1992, the episode is even more resonant in 2009. When Picard’s comrades on the Enterprise learn of Picard’s capture, they insist that the Cardassians abide by the terms of a Geneva-like “Solanis Convention.” The Cardassians rebuff the request: “The Solanis Convention applies to prisoners of war … [Picard] will be treated as a terrorist.””

    http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2009/05/there_are_four_lights.html

    Have a nice day

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  17. All Tom wants is some Bible truth, is that too much to ask for?

    Best laugh of the week to start the ratrace.

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  18. “When Picard’s comrades on the Enterprise learn of Picard’s capture, they insist that the Cardassians abide by the terms of a Geneva-like “Solanis Convention.”

    Captain Kirk, as you recall, had a kind of obsession with the Cardassians. Spock found that obsession fascinating and investigated. As it turns out, Kirk and Bones thought it was the Kardashian planet and were hoping to violate the prime directive.

    I don’t feel very teleological right now.

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  20. But it was encouraging to see Tom being a wise-ass on other forums, hassling people who are honestly upset about certain superstar Neo-Reformed pastors losing their “integrity.”

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  21. And I hadn’t even seen Chortles’ quote about Eddie Haskell when I wrote this.

    Sadly Tom has perhaps become the least respected commenter here since Doug Sowers. That takes work.

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  22. Tell Tom we are the nice Reformed folk. We the sweetie-pies of the internet.

    He should spend some quality time with those who want to excommunicate me for wishing people a Merry Christmas or saying “He is risen” on Easter Sunday.

    They’d fix his hash but good.

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  23. Since what Tom gets off on is arguing with people and getting under their skin, Hart’s manner of responding to him is quite wise. Tom seems to be more the irritated that the irritant of late.

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  26. Generally if someone is interested in having a conversation they can make 1 of every 500 or so posts friendly or conversational as opposed to accusatory and judgmental.

    Chortles – If those guys were attorneys imagine how the law would have been transformed.

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