For all of the efforts to link certain contested views with a southern California city, why has no one spotted the ties between Tim Keller, Tim Bayly, David Bayly, Richard Lovelace, and Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary? Why not a South Hamilton Theology? After all, all of the above (except for the seminary, which is independent like Westminster California), are Presbyterians of the New School variety. That is, unlike the Old School which at least made a place for the spirituality of the church as part of its understanding of ministry, these New England New Schoolers believe the church should transform culture. It may be the hard transformation advocated by the Baylys, or the soft variety coming out of Keller’s Redeemer NYC. But it is transformation nonetheless and it goes hand in hand with Lovelace’s high esteem for revivalism, pietism, and the quest for personal and social holiness.
Speaking of hard, the Baylys’ recent rant about 2k is jaw dropping in its invective. Here are a few savory bits:
The brave members of the Escondido Theology R2K Sanhedrin out at Westminster Seminary (Escondido) wage war against pastors and elders who warn their flocks and neighbors about the growing bloodshed and totalitarianism of these United States. Old people are regularly murdered, little babies are subject to the wholesale slaughter protected by SCOTUS and all its law enforcement apparatus, these evils will only grow under Obamacare’s nationalized healthcare…
Meanwhile the R2K Sanhedrin is desperate to silence all those Reformed voices speaking out against the Third Reichification of nursing homes and hospitals and Ethical Review Committees.
You have, of course, noticed all those Reformed pastors and elders speaking out against the Third Reichification of our hospitals and nursing homes, haven’t you? Likely you yourself have a Reformed pastor or session in your own community that regularly pickets your county nursing home. Your hospital. A graduate of Covenant Theological Seminary who writes letters to your state’s board of medical ethics…
Aside from mixing up their seminaries — coherence is not one of the Baylys’ long suits — where do you go from an introduction like this? How about here?
Even if we thought the Escondido Theology R2K storm troopers were right in calling down fire from Heaven on pastors betraying their Gospel calling for politics, we’d look around and wonder where on earth these pastors and sessions are? I mean I have a pretty broad knowledge of the Reformed church in these United States and, for the life of me, I can’t think of even a single church anywhere that lets out a peep about politics or takes the first step toward clothing the naked public square as righteous Lot did.
These R2K men working hard to gag Reformed pastors and elders really have no one at all to gag. And they know it.
This may explain the reference in the title to medication. One of the indications of mania is conspiratorial thinking, which doesn’t let contrary evidence get in the way, no matter how close at hand it is. The piece of evidence that might challenge this hysteria is the fact that no one has yet to shut down the Bayly Blog and it would be good of Tim and David to produce evidence of anyone attempting to silence them.
But the fault in my logic could be that I don’t understand that for the Baylys disagreement constitutes tyranny. Just look at the way they jump from the martyrs of the early church (who last I checked actually lost their lives) to the contemporary social conservatives (who merely lose the respect of their fellow citizens, especially if they follow the logic of the Baylys).
Intolleristas are bloodthirsty for exclusivists. It was this way with the Early Church under Rome and it’s this way with the Late Church under Western Secularism. Separation of church and state is the death of Christian evangelism and discipleship unless Christian evangelism and discipleship becomes as vapid as the R2K monomaniacs.
Christian life, worship, evangelism, and discipleship are utterly incompatible with Western Secularism’s pluralism. Every single time a man under the Lordship of Jesus Christ tries to clothe our naked public squares, he will be shouted down by those convinced they don’t have gods and they don’t worship and they are as broad-minded and tolerant as can be.
And if that man escapes the priests and priestesses of tolerance, on the way home he’ll be cornered by the R2K Sanhedrin who will beat the tar out of him for giving Reformed copaceticdom a bad name.
I keep thinking that at some point some of the folks who have it in for 2k will back away from their prejudices because of nonsense like the Baylys’. It would be like the kind of angst that fans of Indiana University basketball experienced when Bobby Knight was doing his impersonation of John McEnroe. You might still root against 2k, but you might also begin to think that the case needs a better expression. But apparently critics of 2k are so opposed that they will turn a blind eye to God’s law and common decency.
Old Life 
If the Baylys are anything like Bob Knight, they are very thin-skinned. The more they protest that they do not care what people think about them, the more they seem to notice what people say.. But the attractions of Niehbuhr’s “transformation” type include never having to suffer yourself while being patronizing about the “idealism” of others who end up crushed (often as a result of your attempts at transformation).Some things they can’t change, some things they can (the Supreme Court for example), and instead of martyrdom the transformationists choose the serenity of pushing history in the right direction in the long term. No need to beat up on foolish little sectarians along the way.
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Andrew Sullivan is saying bad things about the Baylys in Newsweek: The crisis of Christianity is captured in the new meaning of the word “secular.” It once meant belief in separating the spheres of faith and politics; it now means, for many, simply atheism. The ability to be faithful in a religious space and reasonable in a political one has atrophied before our eyes…
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What is going on over there at Baly-ville? I didn’t see any references to sex or gender issues in this post. The closest they came, was calling the public square naked. Have they gone soft?
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It is truly hard to believe this is real. I know it is, but it is so ridiculous it defies comprehension.
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I don’t know how this plays in, but the Baylys seem to adore Doug Wilson. They have been promoting him recently as he is coming to Indiana to speak on sex. Then, Tim Keller brings N T Wright around on a regular basis.
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I notice awhile back that Phil Johnson over at Pyromaniacs blog removed the link to the Bayly bros. blog after they took an axe to John McArthur for permitting the NIV to be used for a new edition of his study Bible. It just ocurred to me- Are these guys any kin to Carrie Nation?
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“I don’t know how this plays in, but the Baylys seem to adore Doug Wilson. They have been promoting him recently as he is coming to Indiana to speak on sex. Then, Tim Keller brings N T Wright around on a regular basis”
The way I would explain these seemingly odd bedfellows, is to argue that they are 2 ends or at least left or right along the same continuum. It’s like watching Pat Robertson and Al Sharpton go after each other not realizing they are both batting for moralism and civil religion divorced from it’s particularities, marshalling redemptive categories as it suits their political agenda. They simply bat from opposite sides of the plate. Boy, you can tell baseball season has started for me.
Or better said in the article; “It may be the hard transformation advocated by the Baylys, or the soft variety coming out of Keller’s Redeemer NYC.”
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Do we now like Carrie A. Nation? You gotta admire someone who goes around literally smashing up bars in the name of Christ, don’t you? She at least walked her talk. Even her name rocks!
The Baylys though: they’re abominable.
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That was meant to say: Do we NOT like Carrie A. Nation?
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It’s a shame that the ultimate gets absorbed into the penultimate like this. You’d think they were talking about Unitarians in that rant by the Baylys. I’ll bent that not one of them has written anything from DVD or DGH. That’s what is particularly troubling – criticizing a theology that they have never thoroughly studied. Perhaps a public debate would be in order. It sounds like it is time. Who will be the “James White” to step up to the plate for “(R)” 2K?
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DGH,
Don’t you think this gives some of us medicated 2k advocates a bad name? At least there’s a name for my brand of crazy – and pills that help. Last time I checked Bayly-polar disorder is not apart of the DSM-IV handbook.
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Scott Oakland,
James White??
Don’t you think Dr. VanDrunen’s “Living in God’s Two Kingdoms”, “A Biblical Case for Natural Law”, and “Natural Law and the Two Kingdoms: A Study in the Development of Reformed Social Thought” or Dr. Hart’s “A Secular Faith” or Rev. Jason Stellman “Dual Citizens: Worship and Life Between the Already and the Not Yet” or upcoming book by Dr. Kim Riddlebarger on Two Kingdoms is enough?
With apologies to Dr. Hart and Rev. Stellman [both of their books are fine books], anyone open to to learn about Two Kingdom Theology can read “A Biblical Case for Natural Law” and “Living in God’s Two Kingdoms” by Dr. VanDrunen and get a full understanding of Two Kingdom Theology. They are very easy reads.
Scott, It’s not that Dr. VanDrunen’s/ Two Kingdom critics don’t understand Two Kingdom Theology, it is that Two Kingdom Theology exposes their methodologies and they shifted the Church’s Mission from being sojourners and exiles in this world to something else.
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Jed, you didn’t even enter my (normal) mind since you live in California.
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Do they sell straightjackets in Indiana?
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Todd, only for women who are not mothers.
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Joe,
I would not call VanDrunen’s NATURAL LAW AND THE TWO KINGDOMS, an easy read- especially the sections on Dooyewaard, Barth and Van Til; although it was written in a style that made it conducive to understand some fairly complex issues. I found some of the natural law sections a bit slow going too.
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Jed,
There are lots of bipolar types in rehabs- you should be thankful you’re not a recovering addict! I hope you and others can take that humorously.
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John,
True, that’s why I mentioned “A Biblical Case for Natural Law” and “Living in God’s Two Kingdoms” by Dr. VanDrunen as easy reads and not ” Natural Law and the Two Kingdoms: A Study in the Development of Reformed Social Thought” , go back re-read the post.
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Apologies Joe- I tend to be too quick to speak at times; you got me!! Perhaps I’m going dyslexic in my older age.
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Darryl, or mothers who endure personal Bayly training on disciplining children.
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Now you’ve done it, Alexander – they’re going to change their website to “Bayly Nation.”
In their defense, their blog-tag already says “out of our minds.” But I wish they would make up their mind whether they are the macho bully-boys or the 98 pound weaklings.
I almost admire the chutzpah it takes to claim they’re the victims of intolerance. Almost.
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Speaking of the Bayly’s, Hunter Thompson and dooplegangers- here is a short clip of DGH’s doopleganger- Scott Walker- 30th century man:
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I should say Dgh’s dark side doppleganger.
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Joe, My James White reference was code for a good debater. True, they should read DVD’s book (et al). But sometimes public debates can be helpful.
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John,
You give me way too much credit my man. I am still fairly young and there are a plethora of In ‘N Out’s along the California coast. If I skip on rehab (or a sensible diet) the cardiologist might have to take care of me in the end.
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Someone has to at least admit that Scott Walker does have a faint resemblance to the pied piper.
Jed, I find it liberating to admit my peccator failings of the past- better than having someone drag them out at an inopportune time. I am not sure if there is more wisdom in just shutting up about it- most will counsel you that it is.
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Just to clarify- I did not mean pied piper in the literary way; I just meant it as the one who leads on this site- hopefully it is not a leading like the literary pied piper which is how lots of the enemies to this site would caricature it.
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I got a good laugh out of this.
I do like the comparison of the Bishop of Bloomington to Carrie Nation.
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As I’ve grown older I’ve learned that the approach that Baylys uses turns more people off than it wins over. Those it wins over are usually so tempermentally combustible that they will soon be falling out with their “allies” over other issues. You can always find something to disagree on. Let’s just talk & reflect together. We may disagree but we can learn from each other & be civil.
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