When Allies Impersonate the Axis

Published on by D. G. Hart

I was surfing around the Internet last weekend, hoping to find a paper by a certain academic theologian, when I came across The Gospel Coalition’s Resources page, which includes a gargantuan list of sermonizers. Much to my surprise I found that I am one of the listed preachers at TGC. @#$%#^&%@!!!

The reasons for taking offense are several. First, I am a four-office fellow, which means that as a rule I don’t preach. And TGC, confused as the allies are liturgically and ecclesiologically, has take the liberty of listing talks and interviews as sermons. Heck, I objected when John Frame likened preaching to a “dramatic” “liturgical” skit. I think we have a case of bait-and-switch.

Second, I am not a member of TGC and have not supported its programs. I believe I have been fairly candid and steady about that opposition. So in the name promoting the programs and aims of TGC, you would think their web masters would not want to list one of their critics as a “resource.”

It reminds me of Ron Wells old line about evangelicalism: I’d give up my membership if I knew where to send in my card. In the crazy world of parachurch evangelicalism, no cards, no membership, just right.

100 thoughts on “When Allies Impersonate the Axis”

  2. “It reminds me of Ron Wells old line about evangelicalism: I’d give up my membership if I knew where to send in my card.”

    Nice.

    So when you preach do you wear a robe?

    Reminds me of my old E-Free Church. When the pastor was gone you never knew who you were going to get. My favorite was some guy who worked with the court system as an advocate for at-risk youth. I have no idea how that qualified him to fill the pulpit, but oh well.

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  5. They list Alvin Plantinga too. Talking about “sermons” getting too philosophical….
    Not to mention the strange criteria in discernment where they would reject one Trinitarian heresy (T.D Jakes), but embrace another (Plantinga’s social trinitarianism).

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  7. Lewis,

    That piece reminds me of how I used to listen to Marc Driscoll. My wife’s uncle & cousin from Seattle came to visit us in Iowa and I asked them if they were familiar with Driscoll and Mars Hill. They had never heard of him. “Christian Celebrity” always deserves an asterisk by it.

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  8. Erik: “Just don’t complain so much that they take the talks down. I want to listen to them.”

    I second that motion.

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  11. You’ve been absorbed. Resistance is futile.

    Great, TGC is now the Borg. Maybe the speakers at their conferences can put their honoraria towards a gigantic flying saucer, like the ones in Independence Day, blowing up rural churches with the gentle blue glow of their super-sized lasers. Come to think of it, many of TGC’s personalities look like they could easily star in sci-fi flicks.

    Don’t worry Darryl, if you were in a Sci-fi series, the only role I could see you playing is as the surly space cowboy Mal from the best Sci-fi series ever – Firefly.

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  12. No CTC is the borg. Anyone who can argue you’re in an imperfect, but nevertheless, union with a church which your protestant tradition has declared antichrist is the borg. TGC is amorphous, like eeeeevangellyfish.

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  19. If D.G. allows my comment with the two You Tube links the first one will make no sense. You will be able to see my daughter and her friends acting goofy, though.

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  20. sean,

    No CTC is the borg

    Well shoots brah, now I am all confused – sci-fi analogies are sometimes hard to pin down. So, let me get this straight, if CtC is the Borg, does that make TGC the Blob? I mean the amorphous, undifferentiated Reformed goo that basically absorbs everything in sight – without much reflection on what should or should not be absorbed – seems to fit.

    Since we are dispensing sci-fi labels here, what label would a 2ker wear, or a theonomist, I have a feeling neo-cals would be hard to label too. But, let’s get real here, labeling, while intellectually lazy and a bit sophomoric, is a lot fun, and makes life much easier.

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  21. Erik,

    Thanks for the heads up, unfortunately I am kind of stuck in suburban limbo, neither hot nor cold. Thank goodness Jesus wasn’t a hipster, otherwise he’d probably treat suburban sprawl with a sort of disinterested disdain – like we are too prosaic or something… probably opting to hang with Noam Chomsky instead of us suburban schlubs.

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  30. DGH, you need to to watch you some Firefly. It’s not really sci-fi. It’s more like Westerns, set in space.

    Fantastic character development, good writing, interesting plot twists.

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  34. This discussion reminds me of the summer I worked at a Young Life Camp in college. I signed on for 2 months and got the assignment to work as a baker. Most of the beautiful people at the camp worked on the waterfront and came from Wheaton, Notre Dame, etc. I worked like a slave and didn’t have any time or energy to socialize. The beautiful people socialized each night after their glamorous work was done. I wasn’t formally Reformed at that point in time, but should have been able to see the writing on the wall — I wasn’t destined for greatness within evangelicalism. I burned out and called my folks to come get me after 5 weeks. Later that summer I went back as a camp counselor for a week and had a good time, though, as I had the previous summer as a camper.

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  36. Just now tuning into this thread – yikes! Cabin fever has definitely set in – I hope Spring is just around the corner.

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  38. This could be very good. God works in mysterious ways. I was turned on to Calvin & reformed theology while involved in a college and career class taught by two PCA elders in a United Methodist Church.

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  40. No DGH, they were married hetero guys; God’s ways weren’t quite that mysterious in this case. The strange thing was that a broadly evangelical Methodist church would have two guys teaching reformed theology in the college and career class. I guess there’s something good to say about broad churchism, but I’m not sure what.

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  41. DGH,

    I’ll help you out, as time allows, check out Firefly on Netflix. It is by far the best concieved, and most realistic sci-fi out there. Joss Whedon claimed his inspiration for the series came after he read a book about what happened to the confederate soldiers after they lost Gettysburg. Here’s a good synopsis from Wikipedia:

    The series is set in the year 2517, after the arrival of humans in a new star system, and follows the adventures of the renegade crew of Serenity, a “Firefly-class” spaceship. The ensemble cast portrays the nine characters who live on Serenity. Whedon pitched the show as “nine people looking into the blackness of space and seeing nine different things”.[1] The show explores the lives of some people who fought on the losing side of a civil war and others who now make a living on the outskirts of society, as part of the pioneer culture that exists on the fringes of their star system. In addition, it is a future where the only two surviving superpowers, the United States and China, fused to form the central federal government, called the Alliance, resulting in the fusion of the two cultures. According to Whedon’s vision, “nothing will change in the future: technology will advance, but we will still have the same political, moral, and ethical problems as today”

    Even if you aren’t a nerdy sci-fi honk like me, as Jeff said, the character development on the show is pretty hard to top. So you might find yourself enjoying it – especially the character Malcolm Reynolds – seeing as you both share certain “Southern” sympathies (sans slavery of course).

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  42. Jed and Jeff, I appreciate the help, but I fear the missus will never go for this. Not sure about the deeg either. But if the Coen’s do a sci-fi flick . . .

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  43. Dr. Hart,
    As the G.C. is fundamentally flawed in its foundation and presence how can it be essentially exposed, and should it be avoided by those we would hope are allies in the Reformed seminaries and churches who speak at its meetings?
    Another thought for contributors to Old Life. How about exchanging the tittle tattle and off subject stuff by messaging each other on Facebook? Too many comments are self indulgent and obscure and contribute little to helpfully developing the discussion.
    Finally Dr. Hart, as I pottered around Dublin today I wondered what you thought of it when you visited the Irish capital recently and were there any areas which you particularly liked?

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  44. Paul (UK),

    “Another thought for contributors to Old Life. How about exchanging the tittle tattle and off subject stuff by messaging each other on Facebook? Too many comments are self indulgent and obscure and contribute little to helpfully developing the discussion.”

    was immediately followed with:

    “Finally Dr. Hart, as I pottered around Dublin today I wondered what you thought of it when you visited the Irish capital recently and were there any areas which you particularly liked?”

    The irony is outstanding.

    Maybe think of Old Life Comments like going to the local pub.

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  45. And Nate, with a triple into the corner drives in two runs and puts the yanks on the board first. When will the brits stop trying to skip it over the plate.

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  46. Paul UK,

    Forgive the indulgence, but have you been taking notes from Old Bob on how to police a blog that belongs to someone else?

    But, since you insist on substance *sigh*, which is something best found in a book as opposed to the blogosphere –

    My issue with TGC is that it has basically become a money making celebrity mill. Additionally it seems like an attempt by predominantly Calvinist leaning baptists to have a quasi denominational structure without actually being an ecclesiastical body. But, it’s not all bad – making Themelios available for free online is a huge plus, and aggregating Reformed (and vaguely Reformed) content in the form of articles and lectures is also useful. But the overall mission of TGC is a bit of an overreach because it doesn’t do a good job of respecting and upholding the distinctives between Reformed/Presbyterian and Baptist – I get the impression that they are annoyed that we have such separations and aren’t more focused on their neo-revivalist program of bringing gospel to the church and the culture . Why not follow suit with some of the other Reformed non-profits like Monergism, Reformed Forum, and White Horse/Modern Reformation that serve more as a resource to the Reformed community without assuming ministerial authority in their organizations?

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  47. At least when we get to heaven Paul (UK) will immediately be able to recognize the Old Lifers. We’ll be the guys in the corner telling fart jokes, making obscure movie references, and poking fun at most of the other Christians up there. We’re just experiencing a little bit of heaven on earth right now.

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  48. Old Life is the weather-beaten shack, D.G. is the exposed light bulb on the patio, and the rest of us are just moths congregating around the heat & light. Can I get a witness?

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  52. DOH!

    *Reading* Paul’s comment was like watching Wylie Coyote assemble something out of an ACME box. No way was that going to end well for Paul.

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  55. M&M, let’s hope UKPaul doesn’t get too testy. But we GenXers do take our pop culture very seriously. (I can’t watch that clip without fond memories of cheese sandwiches after school.)

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  56. Listening to your talk on the Spirituality of the Church. You say that the Oneida Community practiced a form of communal marriage. Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that they practiced a sort of communal sex without marriage? They rejected marriage because they saw it as selfish. Anyone could have sex with anyone else that consented, but males were only allowed to complete the act with women if the leader approved. They were basically practicing a sort of free-love with male continence and eugenics thrown in

    Interesting to note that the Weather Underground also practiced communal sex, although Ayers and Dohrn ebentually paired off and settled into conventional domesticity.

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  57. Yes Jed and mikelmann and anyone else,
    As soon as I’d posted my comments I saw the irony of what I’d written; I felt like a certain idiot called Baldrick known to some Brit TV comedy buffs. But trying to get some information from Dr. Hart on OL is always worth a try. Jed, I like the idea of OL being like a conversation down at the pub, but it can still seem a little like a club for insiders and wouldn’t it be fascinating if some of the celebs at the GC could reply point by point to what Dr. Hart has made, and then some really serious debating could get going? Also Jed your answer to my question about the flaws in GC was helpful, but how to say to it’s darlings like KDY “Quit GC!” is harder – perhaps their book sales and influence would wane, which may well be a good thing.

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  58. Paul,

    The Christian celebrity gig is a hard habit to break. Hart would have to get past their handlers to get a response, and then it might resemble something like Robert Schuller on a plane (courtesy of the NTJ):

    “Television pastor, Robert Schuller, has not found the skies of United Airlines all that friendly of late. On June 28 he flew from Los Angeles to New York for Betty Shabazz’s memorial service. (Was he a
    good friend of Malcolm X or just posturing? You make the call.) Schuller’s first-class ticket, ironically, was with United Airlines. When Schuller asked the flight attendant to hang up his garment bag the response was basically,“hang it yourself,” though the attendant explained it was a violation of company rules. Later the pastor also asked for fruit without cheese but the same attendant, Khaled Elabiad, refused to comply with the minister’s request. Then Schuller
    rose and went to the kitchen to ask another attendant for a serving of grapes sans cheese. Elabiad claims that Schuller, who had been drinking, grabbed him by the shoulders and began to shake
    him. “I was shaken so hard,” the attendant says, “that my head was going back and forth many times, giving me whiplashes and pain.” OUCH! Schuller counters that he was only counseling the
    attendant. “My intent,” as he explained to the court after federal prosecutors charged Schuller with misdemeanor assault, “was to get his attention, not to cause physical harm.” The good news
    for Schuller is that the assault charges have been dropped. The bad news is that Elabiad is filing a $5 million lawsuit. Could this be what happens to clergy who seek relevance? It is not hard for us to believe that Schuller could be so demanding as to come off as a surly passenger. Anyone who heard his interview with Michael Horton et al a few years back on the “White Horse Inn” know of the
    preacher’s egotistical ways. What is hard to believe is that a 70 year-old man could inflict such bodily harm upon a man at least forty years younger. Can you really see this bastion of positive thinking shaking any individual so hard that his head would bob from side to side like
    those little baseball player dolls that baby boomers grew up with? But then again, maybe Schuller’s service/show is called “Hour of Power” for a reason.”

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  59. Paul (UK),

    I certainly don’t aim to genuinely offend (very often) in my comments, please accept my sincere apology if you were. For better or worse comments here at OL seem to be a mixed bag. I don’t think anyone lasts long here as a commenter if they don’t in some sick way enjoy the ribbing. I think I have been following the blog since close to its inception – as I was making the move from basically a YRR type paradigm to confessional Presbyterianism. I thought the folks here were all jerks, and I didn’t get the inside jokes, or the no-holds-barred criticism leveled at some of my favorite dudes (mostly Gospel Coalition figures).

    But, in time, and more serious reading (which I don’t look for on blogs hardly at all), I came to understand and even appreciate the rhetoric of the confessionalists. Did they seem overly sarcastic and jaded, sure, from the outside they did. But how can you not be when dealing with the faux-humility and duplicitous civility of mainstream evangelicalism, and even YRR circles. Especially when the piety and practice of confessionalists makes little to no sense to them. From the inside, understanding why the historic Reformed faith was practiced as it was, I began to see and identify with how liberating it was. Darryl, from my point of view, does a great job of letting OldLife not take on the stuffy environment of a lecture hall – so conversation ranges from the downright absurd, to fairly provocative and intellectually stimulating debate.

    Along the way, the characters that contribute to each other, get to know a good deal about each other’s unique perspectives – and then look for any crack of weakness to mercilessly exploit if we aren’t actually discussing something of substance (and sometimes even when we are). All this to say, every blog takes a life of it’s own, and Darryl’s takes the life of the smart-aleks in the back of the class who besides enjoying giving everyone around them some measure of grief, hold a few things very dear and are willing to go to the mat for it (as some of the discussions with Roman Catholics should show). It goes a long way in helping us not take ourselves too seriously, even if we talk about some fairly important stuff from time to time. I’d be more concerned if you didn’t get ribbed a little here – we kid, but only the ones we like – the ones we don’t get the treatment of a kid from a rival neighborhood.

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  60. Jed,

    To piggyback on your piggyback of someone else’s insight with an insight i’m pretty sure i’m stealing from Darryl, what may be the biggest problem of the parachurch orgs and conferences and celebrity preachers, is how do you then sell the 52 “ordinary” Lord’s days? As it is, “Johnny can’t preach” and “Johnny can’t sing” and he sure as heck can’t deliver the goods on sunday like “insert name” famous preacher/teacher. Now, what do we do? We can’t all live in So. Cal. or along PCH. As an aside, and in response to this later problem , I’ve taken to casting aspersions at West West grads, whenever I can, daring them to come give it a shot in flyover country or the bible belt. I’m not beneath challenging their manhood in order to incite them to get out from underneath West West’s skirts. The preachers I know, in this part of the world, all make north of 100k, which you can live nicely on outside of the left coast.

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  61. Sean,

    We will soon have two Westminster West grads in Des Moines of all places (one at the URC, one at the OPC). They are both raising families and, while not getting rich, would probably say they are living good lives. Plus, when my pastor’s parents and in-laws come from So Cal they get to experience the Iowa State Fair!

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  62. Erik, glad to see my tactics are bearing fruit somewhere. Now to get em headed this direction, we have Big Tex at our state fair, or we did, and we have fried beer.

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  63. Jed and Sean, for what it’s worth, I first had doubts about the conference buzz back in the day of Boice and Sproul. Going to Tenth Pres. on a “regular” Sunday after the PCRT energy, crowds, and special music wasn’t the same affect (even when Boice was preaching — go figure).

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  68. Jed, Zrim, Mikelmann and Eric,
    Thanks for your comments about my all too obvious daft comments. To be compared to Wily Coyote is great, and the video clip Mikelmann referred to is one I am familiar with; for me Loony Toons are up there with Tom and Jerry for laughs. Thanks for allowing this non seminary trained Brit to check in and chip with hopefully worthy comments, even if they blindingly backfire occasionally. I feel somehow I ‘know’ you guys a lot better, and Jed’s comments were particularly helpful in response to me and I don’t mind having a “brushback” if it sharpens me up. You guys are always welcome to our home in windswept Lancashire if you ever pop across the Atlantic.

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  69. How many people from the U.K. have the foggiest idea what a brushback is? I’ll see if I can find one.

    Here you go:

    Another term for it is “chin music”.

    Not sure if Cricket has an equivalent term.

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  70. How many people from the U.K. have the foggiest idea what a brushback is?

    The Brits do watch American sports, so he might be a baseball fan – hopefully not the Yankees though. I watch British sports too, since BBC is part of my cable package – I’ve been really enjoying the Six Nations Rugby Tournament. I’ve been taking a particular liking to the Welch team – but so long as Italy or France doesn’t win, I’ll be satisfied.

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  71. Jed,

    I’ll try not to hold that against you, kind of like the guy at church who makes comments to me about soccer and expects me to know what the crap he is talking about.

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  72. My taste in sports is similar to my taste in women – I like the ones I’ve been around for 20 years and about which I understand the penalties, fouls, and scorekeeping.

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  73. Sean,

    We can’t all live in So. Cal. or along PCH. As an aside, and in response to this later problem , I’ve taken to casting aspersions at West West grads, whenever I can, daring them to come give it a shot in flyover country or the bible belt. I’m not beneath challenging their manhood in order to incite them to get out from underneath West West’s skirts.

    Part of the issue, and why WSCAL was planted initially is a proportionate lack of Reformed churches on the Left Coast. And then the ones that are here aren’t necessarily the healthiest – at least as a confessionalist would define health. There is a huge contingency of theonomists that make things touchy here in SoCal (especially in the OPC), and then we are all aware of the drama for the PCA’s Pacific NW presbytery. The fact of the matter is, for confessional churches to thrive, there will probably need to be some more confessionally minded seminaries to be started in the flyovers, I know Texas is tough as well.

    My best friend lives out in the Houston area, I ran a search for Reformed churches in the area for him, pretty slim pickins.

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  74. I shouldn’t be chauvinistic about people from other countries understanding our sports, though. I play fantasy basketball with a bunch of guys from Eastern Europe. They’re good, too.

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  75. Erik,

    I am not a soccer fan. I can somewhat appreciate it, but the only major international sport I can really get into, besides Curling, is Rugby. Of course I still follow FILA wrestling, and am still really hacked that they dropped wrestling from the Olympics – what a crime!

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  77. “I am not a soccer fan. I can somewhat appreciate it, but the only major international sport I can really get into, besides Curling, is Rugby”

    You’re not helping.

    Just kidding. My nephew (who lives next door — my wife’s identical twin’s son) wrestled in the state dual meet a few weeks ago in Des Moines. He went 1-2 but it was great to see him wrestle in a big-time arena. It’s a great and very physically demanding sport that I wish more places embraced. I didn’t do it growing up, but may have enjoyed it if I had. I only wrestled once in PE class in junior high. I beat this guy who was strong as an ox, but he twisted my neck so bad I had to leave school and go to the doctor. It was probably an illegal hold, but there was no referee so neither of us knew better.

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  78. So who would win a match between Jed & Nate Paschall? The day I wrestled my brother (who was 9 years younger than me) and we were equal was an eye-opener.

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  79. Sure, you got a brushback, Paul, but rest assured if a neo-Cal comes in here and plunks you in the ribs we’ll make sure he gets plunked in the ribs. It’s The Code.

    Anyway, I think you’ve been around here longer than I have. My greatest disappointment here is that, with your disdain for small talk, I can’t ask you about the status of Rory Gallagher in your part of the world. I learned of him because he did some top-notch guitar work for Muddy Waters and then I watched a Netflix piece about him. I wish American preachers shared his disdain for celebrity status.

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  80. Jed,

    It was the same story when I was living in San Diego. Always kinda surprised me, but then who woulda thought Fallbrook would be a stronghold of white supremacists. So-cal isnt always as modern as one might suspect. The conservative Presbyterians in Texas are funded out of Park City Pres. in Dallas. PCPC’s(park city) is heavily weighted toward rich,white and Kellerite. So, we fend off the romish presbies and “for the city” presbies, same group btw. Austin is the same with Cassidy’s Redeemer.

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  81. My impressions of Southern California have been heavily shaped by the movies “Serial” and “Alpha Dog”. That and the entire run of “The Rockford Files”. In other words, I’m sure I know the place perfectly. My impressions of Texas are shaped by all of the arrogant people I have known with funny accents. You know, like Jerry Jones.

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  83. Sean,

    Always kinda surprised me, but then who woulda thought Fallbrook would be a stronghold of white supremacists. So-cal isnt always as modern as one might suspect.

    They actually lived in Escondido until Metzger moved them up to Fallbrook when Esco became too brown for them. I kind of thought that was ironic given the large native American population around Fallbrook, they don’t take too kindly to neo-Nazis. Escondido used to be a pretty racist town, it wasn’t until the late 60’s that minorities, especially Hispanics were even legally allowed to be out after dark.

    The conservative Presbyterians in Texas are funded out of Park City Pres. in Dallas. PCPC’s(park city) is heavily weighted toward rich,white and Kellerite. So, we fend off the romish presbies and “for the city” presbies, same group btw. Austin is the same with Cassidy’s Redeemer.

    We had a WSC grad at our congregation here in Temecula who was sponsored by a Texas PCA church. He had some interesting insight into the state of confessional Presbys in Texas and the South in general. It was a sad day when he moved along, but he landed in a very solid church on the gulf coast of Florida. I don’t know if the lingering effects of the bible belt culture has been good for confessional churches in the South. But, the PCA’s out here are a lot different than most of what is out that way – owing somewhat to cultural differences, but also to WSC’s influence as well.

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  84. Erik,

    Nate wasn’t a wrestler, so it wouldn’t even be close. But if we ever squared off in a real fight (never have, even though we’ve been close) that would be a close one – he’s wiry and pretty tough. Now that I am chubby and out of shape I’d give him an edge, but I’d venture to say I am meaner. My other younger brother was a wrestler and while I was stronger he was a better athlete in general, and we basically have the same style, so unless I had a few beers in me, it was always pretty much a toss up once he was a junior in HS and was proficient – just depended on who caught who out of position. He was always more into surfing though, and still is pretty good even though family and work keeps him out of the water.

    I suspect we will try to answer these sort of questions through our kids now that we are in our 30s (Nate’s almost there). My youngest son is a little honey badger, who loves thumping on other kids – so he was basically made for the mat. My oldest is too sweet of a kid for that, besides he has a heart condition – golf should suit him well, after all school is the only time that sport is cheap.

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  85. UKPaul, as a confessed anglophile that accent covers a multitude of ironic sins. Keep speaking, I love to listen.

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  86. Erik,

    Contrary to Jed’s comments about me “not being a wrestler”, I think my two school-wide victories in Middle School counts for something. I still tout those to this day. And since my two elder brothers were avid wrestlers, I was there practice dummy for the better part of 10 years – I learned to defend myself quite aptly, although I had to resort to less-orthodox means to try and fend them off.

    But since you’re asking, I would cream Jed’s crop.

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  92. I’ve heard Hart lecture/be interviewed on Machen many times and have read “Defending the Faith” and this interview is one of the best I’ve heard.

    I’ll remember reading that book the rest of my life because I got through most of it on a plane to & from a North Carolina/Duke basketball game.

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  95. In “Putting Reform Back in Reformed Christianity” Hart gives some good food for thought regarding the Reformed position on the importance (and sufficiency) of Word & Sacrament.

    In “Christianity and American Politics” Hart talks about meeting Muether in the library of Harvard Divinity School when Hart was there reading Kuyper. So consequential an introduction had not been made since Fagen met Becker in a music practice room at Bard College.

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  96. The lecture, “Is Reformed Christianity Evangelical” is excellent and contrasts the experiences abd theology of Edwards with the experiences and theology of Nevin (and Calvin, and Hodge) on conversion and revivalism. Especially meaningful if you have been involved in debating those issues here.

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  97. Hart gives a lecture in the South on the state of Reformed Churches in the U.S. today (from 2005). He starts talking about the CRC and suggests that the audience may have not heard of the CRC. Who was this lecture given to? What a blow to the egos of our Dutch brethren.

    Talking to some people at church on Sunday who grew up in the CRC about the propensity of CRC folks to have a smoke outside after worship. They said when they were young the adults didn’t usually go to Sunday School. The kids would go to Sunday School and the adults would go to someone’s house for coffee. We’re a commuter church and we like adult Sunday School so that’s not how we roll, but that was interesting.

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  98. Hart does several interviews on an LCMS radio program hosted by a guy named Todd Wilken. In the program labeled “Deconstructing Evangelicalism 2” a caller objects strongly to the way Wilken and Hart have defined the church and evangelicalism. He accuses them of constructing a “Straw Dog”. Is this what happens when Bryan Cross meets Dustin Hoffman?

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  99. The caller was being an neocalvinist without knowing it — arguing for the church as “organism”.

    Shortly thereafter Hart makes a reference to the devastation he experienced as a fundamentalist youth upon seeing the photo of Dick Allen smoking in the dugout.

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