Tim Bayly Does His Impersonation of Joseph Stalin and Alger Hiss (all in one)

Published on by D. G. Hart

Tim thinks this exchange between Erik’s brothers’ Darryl/ell proves that 2k advocates are using theology for a political agenda. What it actually reveals is that Tim is afraid his followers will read the other side (e.g. Stalin). And worse, he cannot answer the question (e.g. Hiss) of why he supports the magistrate enforcing the sixth commandment but doesn’t apparently care about laws to preserve the first, second, third, and forth commandments.

R2K men aren’t Christians with a certain political argument but libertarians with a certain Christian argument by which they hope to shore up their political philosophy of each man doing that which is right in his own eyes.

And he thinks 2k advocates hide a political agenda behind Reformed theology?!? In the words of Tom McGinnis, “are you kidding me?”

67 thoughts on “Tim Bayly Does His Impersonation of Joseph Stalin and Alger Hiss (all in one)”

  1. It isn’t so much that I just disagree with the Baylys (though I do), but I honestly don’t understand the justification for their position. I get a thoroughgoing theonomy (I think) though I disagree. What I don’t understand is this view that demands that church members adopt a particular political stance. Sure there are political models that a Christian shouldn’t support (say a state that forbids worship of God or requires some other sinful behavior), but that isn’t on the table here. The question is whether or not Christians MUST support the implementation of laws that place penalties on some immoral behaviors but not others. Why must Christians support laws placing penalties on the murder of unborn children, but they aren’t required to support laws placing penalties on blasphemy or idolatry or violating the sabbath? Further, why isn’t the apostle Paul excoriated for failing to speak out against the horror of infanticide within the Roman Empire. Why wasn’t civil disobedience called for then but it is now?

    Finally, why do so many critics of 2k assert that 2kers oppose political activism by Christians? Perhaps I misunderstand 2k, but my understanding is that 2k doesn’t circumscribe political activism by Christians – rather it asserts that churches should not discipline members for political stances that are not expressly forbidden in scripture.

    I wonder if some of the impasse is connected to the weak ecclesiology of so many evangelical churches. Claiming this or that action sinful is cheap in a church that doesn’t bother with fencing their table or applying any kind of discipline. Also the lack of confessional standards or lack of teaching the congregation about those standards leaves each congregation to reinvent the wheel. I suspect that this could lead to congregations developing doctrinal stands influenced more by the crisis du jour than by scripture or the confessional standards that describe our understanding of scripture.

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  2. These end of game no-calls benefitting the Heat are ridiculous. Just give them the trophy tomorrow and don’t play game 7 if the refs are going to call the game that way. What is this, pro wrestling?

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  3. sdb,

    The Baylys teach their “simple Christians” (I’ll say) that sin resides with the “sodomites”, liberals, and 2K folks. Other than that, it’s all good as long as you agree with their politics (and manliness). Just don’t go overboard and take an ax to a Planned Parenthood or they’ll throw you under the bus.

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  4. How LEGENDS are made, Erik.

    LeBron tanked 2 games in this series and didn’t make a move to the hoop until the last seconds of the 3rd tonight.

    He’ll come out roaring 11 for 14 in the first Q with 4 dunks in Game 7.

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  6. Kent,

    I may not watch. I’m going conspiracy theory and saying Stern has ordered a Heat win because LeBron is “the future of the game”. The Spurs are too old (Duncan), foreign (Ginobli, Parker, Splitter), and unknown (Green, Leonard, Neal, Diaw).

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  7. Erik, that’s the NBA.

    I cheered for the 70s and 80s Boston Celtics and they pulled out at least 30 clutch games like the Heat did tonight, total robberies and not choking and a leprechaun pulling a horseshoe of of his behind.

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  8. Not sure what Duncan was doing on the bench that long in the 4th.

    I counted 6 great D moves by Bosh, 1 noted by the announcers, just the little things like a nudge on Parker to stop his drive and force him well off his intended path.

    The kind of things that coaches love to see in game film…

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  9. You can’t take sides unless you have big $$$ on the outcome or you are honestly a fan of a team involved.

    Cheering out of spite will only get your heart torn out, and for no really good reason as well.

    Just enjoy the game and the drama it brings, sure was enough tonight out there to enjoy.

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  10. Sean, last night’s game may stick in your craw for a very long time. Don’t get me wrong – I want Dwayne Wade to lose, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Lebron has a monster game 7. And if Lebron is dialed in, it really doesn’t matter what all the mortals around him do.

    And I hate that Ray “Judas” Allen hit the big three. But at least your team is in the finals. The only issue with the Celts seems to be whether to dismantle now or later.

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  11. sdb, I personally think it owes to the Gilbert Tennent complex. The Baylys think they have the unction of the Holy Spirit and so all of their opinions are holy and righteous. That’s great for building self-confidence and even infallibility. It makes hay of human depravity and fallibility.

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  12. sdb, think of it as a hyper pro-life agenda behind a quasi-Refomed theology, because that’s precisely what it is.

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  13. kent, how can you enjoy a game that ruins your week because of sleep deprivation? I hate what television has done to sports. If it weren’t televised, then it would be over by 11. And I wouldn’t see it. DOH!

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  14. MM, all, I can’t watch the games. I get updates. I went to bed at 9:00 last night. I swear I wouldn’t be able to function today if I’d watched that. Update at 6:00 a.m. in San Antonio; Traffic is less than 1/2 of normal, received 2 emails in the 5 a.m. hour this morning from what are ‘essential personnel’ that they would not be coming in and need to reschedule, pretty sure they haven’t been to bed. My wife was unable to speak to me this morning, my dogs were not up, I could hear the gays next door playing ‘Could we start again please’ (Jesus Christ Superstar), and apparently I’ll be having a cold lunch today. San Antonio has drawn the curtain until Thursday night and maybe longer.

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  15. DGH, I can function fine on 3-4 hours sleep for a few days in a row.

    Nobody watched that game impassively last night and those on the East Coast then tried to get to sleep at 12:30 after that…

    Best to stay awake until 3:30 and read.

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  16. Guess it all rides on how many of the 48 minutes LeBron wants to try out there.

    And he really really really doesn’t want to waste one minute more than necessary to win a title.

    Over/under of 10 minutes?

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  17. DGH: for Magic and then Bird’s first titles it was on tape delay and you’d have to sit through a Kolchak/Columbo CBS SuperStar Movie Extravaganza (2 one hour TV show reruns) to see the game.

    Those were the days…

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  18. Kent, LeBron was a little soft early in his career but he had his coming out party when he single-handedly buried the Celts in the ECF after being down 3-2. Say what you want about his off-court stupidity but he’s the real deal on the court. No one else is in his zip code.

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  19. MM: he’s an enigma out there, plays when he really feels like it, and coasts the other 40 minutes of any game.

    I never cared about off-court behaviour in assessing a career, Bills fans still love Juice…

    The Celtics were beat up and old and decrepit. Bron should have polished them off in 4 easiliy, but he keeps liking to wait until the last possible moment to pull the fat out of the fire. This does backfire.

    So the world really thought Boris Diaw was going stop Bron in Beast Mode one on one???

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  20. Tell you what, Kent, we’ll do a friendly wager. I bet Bron plays like a beast and the Heat win game 7. You take the Spurs. The loser has to write a sonnet to Tim Bayly.

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  21. MM: I just watch for the pleasure of the greats putting out great effort in stressful moments.

    Used to gamble heavily, and spend my Sundays at NFL games of road trips seeing 3 football games on a weekend…

    I kind of want LeBron to win now, if only to shut up all the non-fans who seem to think there is joy in watching a great fall apart out there.

    I listened to a few Bayly sermons, he is one scary dude…

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  22. Apropos of nothing on this thread (imagine that), another anti-OPC consipiracy: Live video feed dies when OP “observer/delegate” (no blue helmet?) addresses PCA general assembly.

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  23. Sean,

    Welcome to my life as a Cubs and Iowa State Fan. We got kicked in the nuts about five times this past basketball season. No calls, bad calls, buzzer beaters going against us…

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  27. One from the frat is gutter-sniping at things he doesn’t like.

    Was told to go back to his Barth on a good facebook exchange asking why he would act this way while the Word was being preached.

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  28. David, don’t know — the feed failed as soon as I heard “OPC”. Coincidence? Also a coincidence that Chik-fil-a wifi won’t allow Old Life to load? Hmmm.

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  31. Erik, I just read an account of the game. I purposely don’t watch the game so I don’t feel this way. MM, this is your Celtic’s fault. What the frick! I thought Garnett was all about ‘doing WHATEVER it takes’!(insert stupid glare) Newsflash; sometimes it takes taking a brother out! It’s called; sweep the leg. Where you at now homeslice! Coach less, and Garnett and Pierce less, all cuz they front about doing ‘WHATEVER it takes’. The Spurs don’t sweep legs, that’s what the Atlantic black and blue is there for. Who else can I punish?! The Eagles have a college coach. Everyone in Iowa wears a unitard. All the Lakers can do is send Metta out to tweet. Get CtC on the phone.

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  33. Cheer up Sean, something tells me the Spurs will bounce back. They are the better team in my humble opinion. The Heat play ghetto ball, trying to just ram the ball down their opponents proverbial throat. I will give them credit for playing hard defense, but they look lost in the half court. If they are forced to play set up basketball, the Spurs will win. The pundits have already crowned the Heat after the Spurs emotional lose, this portends well for San Antonio.

    We can at least hope,no?

    P.S. Man up and watch tomorrow night, you’ll be glad you did! Go Spurs!

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  34. Thanks CW; Chick-fil-A indeed. But once you bite into that special mix of spices, herbs, and seasonings, with butter and two pickles, all is forgiven.

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  36. Doug, it’s terrifying when I watch. Things are broken, women are offended, dogs howl, men are cowered, imprecatory prayers are offered, it’s like being at Christ Church in Moscow.

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  38. E., I’d take Lester and Earl over Earnest Young Hipsters With Black-rimmed Glasses in Bronx minute.

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  39. Wounded, gone are the days when Kevin Mchale could clothes-line Kurt Rambis flying to the basket and not get suspended.
    http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/06/nba-finals-moments-video/kevin-mchale-kurt-rambis-clothesline
    Cornbread Maxwell, who walked across the free throw lane with his hands around his neck after James Worthy missed a free throw, had this to say “”Before that play, the Lakers were like little kids just running across the street without looking,” Celtics forward Cedric Maxwell told the Boston Globe in 2000. “But after that play, they would stop, press the walk button, wait for the light to turn, then look both ways.”

    But the Lakers kind of got even. The last time the Celts and Lakers were in the finals Ron Artest floored Ray Allen, purposefully driving his knee into Allen’s thigh. With his bruised leg, Allen was worthless for the rest of that series.

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  41. NBA started getting soft when Parish was suspended for a game for clocking Laimbeer. Should have been given the Presidential Medal of Freedom for that move.

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  42. Sean says: ‘Things are broken, women are offended, dogs howl, men are cowered, imprecatory prayers are offered, it’s like being at……… out with your *gay* friends?”. LOL! LOL!

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  43. M&M: The Lakers got even the next year, in 85. Remember James Worthy close line in game two after the Boston Massacre? His foul was far more flagrant! And the Lakers won in 6!

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  44. sdb,

    That’s my understanding of 2k as well. I have no problem with people who share the political views of the Baylys, just so long as they don’t seek to bind others’ consciences on such issues. Ironically, it’s the Baylys and their ilk (e.g., DTM) whose focus is almost entirely on politics and only secondarily on the Gospel (if at all). From what I can tell, they preach something akin to a right-wing social gospel.

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  45. Bobby,

    I would argue that religious patriarchy, whether promoted by Gothard, Wilson, Bayly, Vision Forum, etc… is not Christianity, but a separate religion, much like the Galatian heresy. There may be a gospel on paper in these movements, but the gospel is a means to conform people to the new law – their patriarchal standards. It is a religion all about control, and unfortunately it is gaining ground in conservative circles.

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  46. “From what I can tell, they preach something akin to a right-wing social gospel.” That’s a good way to put it…it’s my thought as well.

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  47. Alright, for anyone who listened to the PCA GA, where is this group headed or could you tell?

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  49. Oh yeah. I keep forgetting. In this town it’s hard to sell your church as a role model to and for the city, when the sports franchise has all the high ground locked up. If you ain’t got the gospel, what do you have the Spurs don’t or the catholics don’t do better.

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  51. Erik, tru dat. If Jesus isn’t raised from the dead we of all people are most to be pitied. Paul says even the hedonists, with all those known temporal pitfalls, have a better plan for this life than we do if Christ be not risen.

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  55. Macaroni Grill? I don’t get it. Explain it to me and I’ll check in when I get back from watching another 6 hours of track tonight. Look near the finish line on ESPN 2 and you might see me. Third row up wearing a Red Sox cap.

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  58. D.G.,

    Part of my metrosexual evolution is an even greater embrace of track & field (both genders). I’m seriously considering getting Dish so I can get the Universal Channel so I can watch the Diamond League international meets. I’m becoming a world citizen and you’re to thank for it.

    Plus I’m a Cubs fan and they suck.

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  62. On the gambling theme, two of the best lines from my favorite song:

    “My back to the wall, a victim of laughing chance. This is for me, the essence of true Romance.”

    and

    “I’ll rise when the sun goes down, cover every game in town. A world of my own, I’ll make it my home sweet home.”

    The DVD on the making of this album (“Aja”) is really good. Available through Netflix.

    Best gambling movies that come to mind are P.S. Hoffman in “Owning Mahowny”, Altman’s “California Split” and “Rounders” with Norton, Damon, Malkovich, and Turturro (John, not Aida). McQueen’s “The Cincinnati Kid” is also interesting. Of course there’s also “The Sting”, P.T. Anderson’s “Hard Eight”, and Scorsese’s “Casino”. “Oceans 11” takes place in a casino but isn’t really about gambling.

    Now back to your regular programming.

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  63. Pingback: On Gambling | Literate Comments

  64. Dude, “The Hustler.”

    “There are only a handful of movie characters so real that the audience refers to them as touchstones. Fast Eddie Felson is one of them. The pool shark played by Paul Newman in “The Hustler” (1961) is indelible–given weight because the film is not about his victory in the final pool game, but about his defeat by pool, by life, and by his lack of character. This is one of the few American movies in which the hero wins by surrendering, by accepting reality instead of his dreams.” – Roger Ebert

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  66. Dude, “The Hustler.”

    “There are only a handful of movie characters so real that the audience refers to them as touchstones. Fast Eddie Felson is one of them. The pool shark played by Paul Newman in “The Hustler” (1961) is indelible–given weight because the film is not about his victory in the final pool game, but about his defeat by pool, by life, and by his lack of character. This is one of the few American movies in which the hero wins by surrendering, by accepting reality instead of his dreams.” – Roger Ebert

    I think it won for best cinematography, shot in black and white to capture the mood. It’s very artistic to be sure, but I wonder how this movie glorifies God, in any sense being its so depressing with Christ not being the answer. What did you say the message was in the grand scheme of things? Fast Eddie is clearly not a believer and the true and living God is not taken into account by any character in the movie. Sex is just a thing. This movie has been shot as if God doesn’t really exist. Just grim reality devoid a an active living God.

    So even though I have enjoyed the movie more than once, (full disclosure) I wonder if it encourages me to press on to the higher calling found in Christ Jesus? Call me wet blanket Doug. If you say it does for you, then this is a very good movie. I am still not sure.

    “All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable.”

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  67. Doug,

    Watch “Leaving Las Vegas” sometime. A movie that demonstrates that the wages of sin is death is as useful as one that overtly “glorifies God”, a la “Chariots of Fire”. That being said, not everyone’s conscience can accept seeing the same things, so I respect people’s individual convictions in this area. The writer who wrote the novel on which LLV was based committed suicide at age 33, which makes you wonder how much it was perhaps autobiographical.

    The movies and shows you need to be wary of are ones that portray sin as if there are no consequences in this world or the next. This is why a series like “Californication” or “Hung” are a waste of time, while a series like “The Sopranos” or “Mad Men” has merit (even though it’s everyone around Tony and Don who are paying for their sins).

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