I have long been intrigued by the question of who succeeds a personality who has made a particular institution a success — not just a success, but upon whom the institution depends. In the parachurch world, for instance, folks wonder who will replace R. C. Sproul. Can anyone? If not, what will become of Ligonier Ministries? Or what about Mike Horton? He’s not about to retire but could White Horse Media go on without Mike? Then there is the case of our friend Ken Myers and Mars Hill Audio. Will Mars Hill simply stop production whenever Ken decides to tend only to his garden?
This is not simply a question for Christians. Would Fresh Air be what it is without Terry Gross? Or what about Garrison Keillor and Prairie Home Companion? In the former case, Gross has had enough guests fill in for her that the show could conceivably go on. Gross clearly “branded” Fresh Air but it continues to be a worthwhile listen when she is not running the show. She has (or her producers have) done what the late night talk shows did routinely — recruit guest hosts who then establish a connection with audiences that allows a Jay Lenno or David Letterman to emerge as a natural successor to Johnny Carson (or even a rival to Johnny’s replacement). (The later series of The Larry Sanders show are very entertaining but also poignant on the egos and expectations involved in these transitions.) In contrast to Terry Gross, Garrison Keillor does not seem to be interested in grooming anyone to take over the show. Not that I am a regular listener, but I can’t recall anyone filling in for Keillor as host. And yet, I can think of any number of writers or entertainers who might possibly make it work — Ellen Degeneres, Roy Blount, Jr., Tom Bodett, or Mitch Albom. The show would lose the Lake Wobegone connection. But it would go on as one of the more entertaining sites on the radio (a distant second to Phil who is cannot be replaced, unless R. C. Collins has a change of heart about a career).
By the way, another example of successful succession is First Things. Who would have imagined that the magazine could go on without Richard John Neuhaus? But after a rocky interlude, Rusty Reno appears to have righted the ship and edits what continues to be a thoughtful, ecumenical but primarily right-of-center Roman Catholic publication.
What prompted me to express these thoughts publicly was the news (thanks to Anthony Bradley) of the Village Church shuddering its doors. This was a congregation formed 18 years ago in Brooklyn when the brand of TKNY was expanding shelf space in the church planting superstore. But that work has ceased:
The time has now come for the Village Church to conclude. We believe our Lord is allowing the community to come to a graceful end.
As we look back over the past eighteen years, we are grateful for all that we have seen Christ do, working through us, even us, to comfort many in need, to challenge the strong, to walk alongside those who follow Jesus, and to bear witness to His life in Greenwich Village. We are happy to see what has been done in hundreds of important lives.
Now the members of the Village Church are being scattered. Along with the sadness of loss of relationships, we see God’s hand in this, causing us to take what we have learned into other church contexts. We are confident that He has, for each one of us, different work to do, in “preaching the word.”
We celebrated Christ for the final time at Greenwich House on April 7th. It was a time of great rejoicing and appreciation for what God has done.
Bradley wonders if this indicates the shelf-life for a “baby-boomber planted missional church.” My wonder is if this is another signal that Tim Keller’s empire is in decline. Of course, Redeemer NYC faces the same problem that Sproul, Horton, Myers, and Keillor do — how do you replace the guy who defined the institution? Although a common problem in the world of communications, it is one that churches that are defined more by teaching and worship than by personality do not usually face. Most congregations understand that its own pastor is not the best in the world but is the one called by God and the congregation for a specific stage in the life of a church. When that pastor retires or takes another call, the congregation assembles a committee and calls another man who will carry out his functions in the context of this congregation’s characteristics (both good and bad). Out of these circumstances emerges a form of spontaneous order where congregations and pastors have reasonable expectations of each other, ones that include an understanding the pastor does not define the congregation. But does the same dynamic work for celebrity pastors? And if one of the jewels in the Redeemer crown of city churches cannot survive even with Keller still active, what does this portend for the other congregations in NYC?
Old Life 
Redeemer now runs on the splinter/mush disintegration model anyway. Several (as I understand) Redeemer-affiliated or Redeemer model churches have left for the EPC and TKNY’s “network” helps plant non-PCA and even non-reformed (baptistic) churches. So more of the same when he goes, I say.
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Speaking of founders, I received this this morning on Joel Beeke’s Puritan Seminary. I think these are solid folks, but my impression is that Old Lifers have great difficulty with certain aspects of the Puritan mindset (at least this Old Lifer does). In a big picture sense we probably agree on a lot, though:
Expansion plans for Puritan Seminary
When Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary built its colonial style building in 2004, the school had about a dozen students. Counting part-timers and distance learners, the school now has around 150 students on its list, of whom 54 are taking courses this semester.
The PRTS building also houses Reformation Heritage Books, a publishing enterprise that continually expands its titles. Increased enrollment and burgeoning business require more staff, all of which translates into a need for more space.
In January of 2012, the Board of RPTS approved a proposal for an addition to the building that could double the school’s current square footage, provided 75% of the approximately $3 million was pledged prior to proceeding.
“We have 82% committed at this point and hope to start as soon as possible,” says Henk Kleyn, Chief Executive Officer.
A group of fundraising volunteers manages a capital campaign that has garnered this support; the biggest boost from one donor of a $1 million matching gift. Another $500,000 is needed for a two-story plan with an additional $500,000 required for a plan with a basement.
Mr. Kleyn explains the two options for which bids are being sought. The two-story plan includes main and upper levels. The main floor would consist of two classrooms, a cafeteria, a book store, six offices, a shipping room, rest rooms, and entry. The upper level will enlarge the library, add eight offices, study rooms, a formal board room, rest rooms, book circulating area, as well as several study offices and group study centers. The basement plan would add a lower level with a couple of classrooms, rest rooms, and a large storage area. The proposed addition will enlarge the IT room and provide storage space for book processing. It will join the east side of the current building with a new parking area in front of the existing structure.
PRTS offers three degress: Master of Arts in Religion (a two-year degree that prepares students for teaching or further study), Master of Divinity (which must be completed in eight years or less), and Master of Theology (which prepares students for teaching or PhD work).
“If the Lord opens the way, we hope to offer doctors degrees in the near future,” says Mr. Kleyn. “Five of our current full-time faculty are qualified to provide PhD level courses.”
Students from around the world are attracted to the school’s Reformed experiential heritage and program. Other contributing factors include Dr. Beeke’s international popularity and a rising interest in Puritan theology, low tuition and a well-funded scholarship program, as well as a holistic view of ministry (head, heart, hands). More international than national students are currently represented in the student body.
Mr. Kleyn says, “God is blessing us with growing opportunities to prepare His servants for sacred ministry around the world.”
For more information about the Seminary or its fundraising campaign, visit the PRTS website: http://puritanseminary.org
The above article by Glenda Mathes appeared on page 13 of the April 10, 2013, issue of Christian Renewal.
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Darryl,
I am not sure if Keller’s model is in decline or not, it remains to be seen what will become of the Redeemer network of churches as he nears retirement. What becomes of parachurch organizations is of little concern to me. That is not to say that I (or others) haven’t benefited from WHI especially, it’s just to say that these organizations typically have a shelf-life that coincides with the tenure of the founding leader(s). If they diminish after the leader’s retirement, I am sure others will be started. I have always maintained that the usefulness of parachurch organizations are only as valuable as their contributions and service to the church, so I am never really saddened when I see a parachurch org that replaces church ministries either diminish or fade away entirely.
What is more interesting for me to watch is how some of these missional churches in the Reformed world will pass the torch to the second generation. I am sure some will have gained the critical mass to continue, but I get the sneaking suspicion that many will not. These churches have made a point to pursue an urban, potentially influential demographic as a means of inculcating involvement and buy-in from both members, and the community at large. Bringing Gospel ministries to the city have become a shibboleth of sorts in the church planting crowd, and some have put a lot of stock into relevance, authenticity, neither of which are bad in themselves but become somewhat off-putting when they are packaged as “hip”. The problem is “hip” is not sustainable from one generation to the next – what is hip to one generation or subgroup within a generation just isn’t to the next.
I get the sense that if some of these hip, or ironically hip urbanites who packed up for the city to plant churches had eschewed influence for being ministerial, some of the problems of succession would be mitigated. To focus simply on the means of grace, and the very basic but immensely difficult task of shepherding is to remove “hip” from the equation, and find root in the catholicity of the church that has been faithfully passed from generation to generation wherever the Word is proclaimed and the Sacraments are rightly administered. Passing on the faith to following generations is tenuous enough of a task without adding to it the need for influence, relevance, or heaven help us, hipness.
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Jed, I agree substantially. So, what happens if the Redeemer network is more a brand (i.e. parachurch) than a church? I don’t think the founders/founder thought of it that way. They wanted a church. But they build that desire (apparently) on a set of concerns that parachurch efforts are more comfortable following than actual churches.
I disagree somewhat about parachurch agencies impermanence. Not the fact, but the hope. I am beyond certain “Christian” endeavors, but I would certainly like to see Prairie Home survive and think it would be fascinating to see it evolve in an post-Keillor iteration.
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“Continuity” means that there can’t be covenants but only administrations of “the covenant”. And thus there can only be one oldlife.org blog, and not a new oldlife.org blog or a oldlife2..org blog. So somewhere there’s a church/state separationist/sacramentalist in a bowtie in the incoming freshman class at….
bob jones 3 was succeeded by steven jones…
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I don’t know that Village Church was ever a jewel in the Redeemer crown. It was more of an alternative. If someone chose to go to Village Church instead of Redeemer it was because they didn’t want the big church experience, but something smaller and more “local.” At least that is according to the people I knew who worshipped and lived there. Or do particularity and smallness somehow cut against your sensibilities, Darryl?
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Pat,
Or do particularity and smallness somehow cut against your sensibilities, Darryl?
You know the Dude, go big or go home… at the same time I have to congratulate you on jamming in that barb, because it was totally not obvious that you were angling to get your dig in. How doooo you do it?
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OR, what happens to Hoagies & Stogies when the Hoagmeister General wants to step down?
As for P&R churches, that’s the beauty of being in a denomination with an actual form of government. In a cult of personality church, if the founder is done, you better hope his son is also a charismatic personality, otherwise it bites the dust. With a P&R church, you follow the steps, you turn the wheel, and eventually you have another pastor.
That’s not to say, however, that we are immune to the downside of celebrity. I’m sure when Sproul finally retires, St. Andrews will hit a rocky patch, but by no means do I think it will crumble. Ligionier is by now a business, I think that could well continue indefinitely as well.
Redeemer in NY on the other hand, seems to me to be a 50/50 proposition; post-Keller survival would seem to depend very heavily on the right flavor of superstar arising. (Note: the Keller multi-site model is alive and “well” in the Harbor Church(es) in the SoCal presbytery of the PCA)
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Pat, so Redeemer is to Walmart what Village Church was to Gelzer’s Hardware. The PCA church planting literature didn’t make that clear.
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Darryl,
I can understand the hope, it’s hard for any organization to outlive the departure of a charismatic founder. Not that charismatic is a good description of Keillor, or even a fair one, but he is a gem nonetheless. I guess I am just not as attached to any particular parachurch org, even the ones I like. Some make it, some don’t into the 2nd generation. If it is going to last, I think the organization itself has to look past it’s founder’s contribution to see if they can make sustainable contributions to, in this case, the church. If it is all about the founder’s contribution, platform, etc, it probably won’t persist; but if the contribution comes from the organization as a whole, it has a shot. With respect to WHI, I would say that Modern Reformation will likely have more staying power than the radio program because it involves a lot of (solid) contributors that aren’t Horton, Riddlebarger, Rosenblat, and Jones.
As to Redeemer, I can’t say much by way of prognosis, because my time machine is in the repair shop and the back-orders on flux capacaters are re-diculous. But, while I think that people have all kinds of motives in coming to church, I believe God draws his people there to feed them. I think that Redeemer really does want to do this, but at the same time, their ambitions for civic/cultural transformation actually work against this. This isn’t to say they aren’t doing good things in the city, it’s just to say that they might grow weary if transformation is their aim and NYC continues to be the sinful place it has always been. At some point I think these movements reach their Zenith and run out of gas, until the next guy with the newer more exciting model and compelling vision comes along. In the end I think that slow and steady does win the race, and all of these accretions to what constitutes a Reformed church will either be sloughed off, or the church will get distracted behind some peripheral cause and cease to be Reformed in any meaningful way.
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As a PCA insider who sees the denominational damage of Kellerism, quoth I:
“For what shall it profit a denomination, if it shall gain the Big Apple, and lose its Presbyterian soul?”
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Dr. Hart,
Your readers have been doing a bit of succession planning. So far we have reserved the following domains:
oldlifecontinuing.org;
thetrueoldlife.org; and
reformedoldlife.org
We have also been contacted by people who have a vision to reclaim America for Christ by transforming oldlife.org into oldlife.com
Regards,
David
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Don’t forget
olderlife.com
and
aarp.pres
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Rube and David, you left out youtightenmypresbyterianjaws.org.
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churchofthecrabby.org
calledtocrabbiness.org
darrylshouseofccrabbycalvinistfun.net
machenwhoopee.com
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I salute you, Tom Troll. Two out of the four are truly excellent.
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Another good example for this blog subject might be Kennedy’s Coral Ridge, associated TV program, and Center for Reclaiming America for Christ. The program was shortened and the social action organization CRAC folded after his death. And as far as I know, the church has split over the installation of the succeeding pastor – too radical a change from the formal, confrontational conservative that got the whole ball rolling.
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Hi D.G.,
I was actually a member of the Village Church for three years and that is where I came under care of the NY Metro Presbytery. I love Rev. Andreades and have the highest respect for him as a pastor and as a fellow believer. Despite the circumstances, he remained faithful to God in his mission. Personally, I think Church planting happened too quickly out of Redeemer and the Village Church lost many members to the Park Slope and Williamsburg plants.
Your post simply affirms the Catholic point. We have the liturgy and the Eucharist and parish life doesn’t change dramatically with the personality of the priest as sometimes happens in Protestantism. We come to Mass for Jesus in the Eucharist and to hear the hear the Word of God, both of which are present even if the priest is a poor homilist with little personality.
Peace in Christ, Jeremy
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Jeremy, if those things are true of your parish, then you’re doing a good imitation of confessional Protestantism. It took the Reformation for Rome to learn some of those tricks.
But don’t forget, you do have celebrity popes who seem to account for many of the Callers’ conversion — you know, audacity and all that. I’m not sure I’ve heard much from Bryan about the audacity of his priest. The priest and parish will always take a back seat to the show in Rome.
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And Jeremy, though Redeemerville and its little villages (mostly) claim to approximate prebyterianism,. in fact, they’re more like episcopacy with Bishop Tim in the big chair, humble though he may be.
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I’m always amazed with the anti-Tim Kellerism here at Old Life. True Reformed theology has always cared about the conversion of the lost through the preaching of the gospel. I spent many years in the PCA in many different congregations and I’m convinced that Redeemer is one of the few places where lost people are hearing about Christ and coming to faith on a regular basis. Tim Keller, like Cardinal Dolan, has a voice that the secular world is at least willing to hear out.
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Sorry, Jeremy. Keller plays fast and loose with the doctrine and polity of the denomination in which I’ve taken officer vows. My “anti-Tim Kellerism” has to do with doctrine and church order — not the man. And happy birthday number 504 to Jean Cauvin.
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Tom, crabbiness is as crabiness does.
With each passing combox post, you make yourself more Darryl’s servant (emoticon).
You dig OLTS, admit it along with us. And enjoy the beer.
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Jeremy T., as if other churches out there aren’t preaching to the lost? Redeemer exceptionalism is worse that American exceptionalism.
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Jeremy, confessional Reformed (Old Life) need some sort of unity with evangelical Presbyterians (Bayly Blog), even if for different reasons–the former for Keller’s cultural transformationism, the latter for the politics of sex.
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D.G.,
Let’s have a moment of honesty. How often do you hear stories of non-churched skeptics walking into OPC Churches, hearing the gospel, and converting to Christ? Sure, other churches may be preaching to the lost, but the lost aren’t in the room.
Peace in Christ, Jeremy
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Jeremy, no offense, but if your conversion to RC is at least partly a by-product of Keller’s brand of reformation, well then, I’d say we’re pretty on target with our questioning of what Keller is ultimately peddling.
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Where are the found supposed to go?
I have enough lost or uncatechized in my life (extended family, high school friends, neighbors, five children) to evangelize for a lifetime. I’m listening to a podcast series on evangelism, and part 4 addresses correcting error and heresy–a very important part of preaching the gospel. Banishing unbelief, but introducing error doesn’t help anyone, and often makes for extra work.
Churches are churches for Christians. (Remember how the unbaptized used to leave the church after the catechism/instruction part, because they weren’t a part of the body yet?) Christians, within their vocation, proclaim the Word to those around them. The Holy Spirit works as He will, sometimes over decades. Sometimes it’s very ordinary and boring, as boring as making your kids memorize the Six Chief Parts.
Comparing Keller (whom I know nothing about) to Dolan is rather disconcerting, since the Bish’s method of evangelism is to open a prayer with “Almighty God, father of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus…” and continue with a blather of civil-religionese. He knows his audience though (RNC). Last month he told an audience of Muslim we all worship the same god! As one commenter said “Their god was not born of a woman, of human flesh; their god did not die on a cross; their god spits on Christians…etc” That sort of “evangelization” makes a lot of work for the rest of us.
Few people are really non-churched, although there may be more in the next generation. Most of the skeptics I know were very much churched growing up, and know all about Jesus dying on the cross to save them from their sins. But their churches were too busy reaching the lost outside the congregation and appealing to the culture to keep their own in the Word of God.
By the way, being well catechized and versed in good doctrine (via Scripture memorization and hymnody) is often the easiest way to be at ease when talking to non-Christians. Churches need their congregants to be well catechized.
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Jeremy, you’re not reading New Horizons. You need to get out more.
Wow, as if you actually know what is going on in any NAPARC communion.
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Sean, you nailed it — said what I wanted to say but couldn’t think how.
In the peace of Bryan,
Chortles Weakly
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Jeremy,
The distinction between churches that reach the lost and those who only reach Christians is not as clear as one may think. First of all, we do not know when conversions occur – they are works of the Spirit. People can just as well be converted undergoing catechism than in a seeker-sensitive service. Not amount of signed conversion cards can reveal who was genuinely converted.
Secondly, enough research has now been done that the former boasts of mega-churches finally reaching the unchurched are not so accurate. This from T.A. McMahon:
“There’s another item that many pastors seem to be missing in their excitement over “growing your church through attracting the lost.” Although numbers seem to rule in this seeker-friendly mania (an amazing 841 churches in this country have reached the “mega” category, with 2,000 to 25,000 weekend attendees), few have realized that the sizeable increase in church attendance is not due to the influx of the unchurched . During the last 70 years, the percentage of this country’s population attending church has been relatively constant at about 43 percent. A spike of 49 percent in 1991 (years prior to today’s initial seeker-sensitive enthusiasm) gradually declined, returning to 42 percent in 2002 (www.barna.org). From where, then, do those mega-churches, which have outfitted themselves to accommodate the unchurched, get their members? Mostly from smaller churches that aren’t interested in or that can’t afford the fleshly attractions. And what of the supposed horde of unchurched Harrys and Marys who have been assembled? They constitute a very small part of mega-church congregations. During his year of researching Willow Creek, G. A. Pritchard, in his book Willow Creek Seeker Services (Baker Book House, 1996), estimated that the targeted unchurched made up only between 10 and 15 percent of the 16,000 or so who attended weekend services!”
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Jeremy, not to pile on, but your last remark does seem to assume the rules of testimonialism: if the disciples of religious celebrity say so then it must be true. Sure, maybe. But an older Calvinist piety tends to have a little more skepticism mixed in. TVD calls that crabby. Sure, sometimes. But without a dose of skepticism, next thing you know we get plenary indulgences.
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AB
Posted July 10, 2013 at 1:06 pm | Permalink
Tom, crabbiness is as crabiness does.
With each passing combox post, you make yourself more Darryl’s servant (emoticon).
You dig OLTS, admit it along with us. And enjoy the beer.
I’m here to cajole the crabby. Somebody has to. Admit it, you’ll miss me up in heaven.
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Jeremy’s just doing his impression of Jack, getting his snarl on:
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todd
Posted July 10, 2013 at 2:37 pm | Permalink
Jeremy,
The distinction between churches that reach the lost and those who only reach Christians is not as clear as one may think. First of all, we do not know when conversions occur – they are works of the Spirit. People can just as well be converted undergoing catechism than in a seeker-sensitive service. Not amount of signed conversion cards can reveal who was genuinely converted.
Secondly, enough research has now been done that the former boasts of mega-churches finally reaching the unchurched are not so accurate. This from T.A. McMahon:
“There’s another item that many pastors seem to be missing in their excitement over “growing your church through attracting the lost.” Although numbers seem to rule in this seeker-friendly mania (an amazing 841 churches in this country have reached the “mega” category, with 2,000 to 25,000 weekend attendees), few have realized that the sizeable increase in church attendance is not due to the influx of the unchurched .
BTW, they say the same of Billy Graham, that his altar calls mostly netted the already-baptized. I’m not coming up with an authoritatize source, though [bleg].
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“I’m here to cajole the crabby. Somebody has to. Admit it, you’ll miss me up in heaven”
Sometimes I have to give Tom credit. It gives me a sharp pain in the ribs, though.
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Zrim,
Simple point I’m making – Non believers go to hear Keller preach where they hear about Jesus. The Old Life crowd should stop bashing him and try to learn something from him. Even as a Catholic I can appreciate Keller’s gift at speaking the truth of Christ to skeptics. I’m not sure why y’all can’t.
Todd,
Tim Keller is not your typical mega Church Pastor. He’s a brilliant apologist on par with C.S Lewis and Peter Kreeft. Willow Creek and Redeemer are two different animals.
Peace in Christ, Jeremy.
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I’d give my left testicle to be able to write a movie that’s that good…
Oops, sorry Katy.
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Tom,
Not sure if I’ll miss you in heaven, but I am getting closer to asking you if I can crash at your pad if I vacation in L.A.
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And here I was, thinking better golf scores got me past St. Peter at the gate. I’ve wasted my life working on a swing, when all I needed was Tom’s blessing in an OLTS combox!??
We’ll both show him that we’re OLTS gold card members, and it’s golf courses galore. We only got that after combox #100, you know, when the ballons fell down around us, letting us know we had won. Like on game shows and stuff.
Consider me cajoled with sore ribs. Thanks for playing.
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Jeremy,
I understand, but you were the one that brought up numbers of conversions, not simply numbers of those who may hear, so I was responding to that specific criticism. I actually like what Keller is doing on an apologetic level, so though his ecclesiology leaves something to be desired (understatement alert), that doesn’t mean everything he is doing is bad.
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D.G,
Good point. I know very little about the NAPARC communion. Perhaps this is because it has only existed for a few years. Or perhaps it is because it is impossible for Catholics to keep track of every denomination and Evangelical/Reformed Alliance. Or perhaps it is because less than one out of every 3000 Confessing Christians is a part of a NAPARC denomination. You make an Interesting comment for a man who writes articles on the Catholic Church pretty much every week. So…you’re an expert on Catholocism (Having never received Catholic instruction) and yet I know nothing of Reformed Thought after graduating from one of your seminaries and Being a member of a Reformed Church for many years? I don’t follow.
Peace in Christ, Jeremy
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Jeremy, if brilliance is so great and Keller posses it then why don’t you adhere? You must have some substantive criticism. So why is it bashing for Presbyterians to criticize other Presbyterians but Catholics who affirm certain anathemas against Presbyterians get to shower plaudits?
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Todd,
Yes, His Ecclesiology leaves Catholicism to be desired:)
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Erik Charter
Posted July 10, 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink
Tom,
Not sure if I’ll miss you in heaven, but I am getting closer to asking you if I can crash at your pad if I vacation in L.A.
We’ll see. My wife is understandably leery of the bad influences I meet on the internet.
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Zrim,
In an interview that Keller did after his Reason for God book He was asked how the book may have been different if he was writing as a Catholic. He responded by saying that he would have spoken about the church more. This should be a red flag. My appreciation for Lewis doesn’t make me want to become an Anglican nor does my appreciation for Keller make me want to return to Presbyterianism. I assume you also appreciate people who you also disagree with on major points. Also I’ve listened to a great deal of Tim Keller and I’ve never heard him bash Catholicism. In fact he frequently quotes from Flannery O’Connor and other Catholic sources. Keller simply does not let his pride get in the way of his commitment to good apologetics which is one reason he’s so good.
Peace in Christ, Jeremy
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Tom,
Tell her the tracking bracelet comes off very soon.
Oh, and my eyebrows have almost grown back in.
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Jeremy, the point isn’t that plenty of good can’t come from without. It can and does. It’s to wonder why old lifery is singled as bashing for wanting to carve out a place for itself as distinguished from the culturalists. But I know what you mean. Gary Wills is great, but he doesn’t draw me to Catholicism.
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Imagine the look on Tom’s face when I show up at his door and I’m actually a 300 pound woman named Brunhilde.
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Erik Charter
Posted July 10, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink
Imagine the look on Tom’s face when I show up at his door and I’m actually a 300 pound woman named Brunhilde.
Anything would be an improvement. You look just like Stuart Margolin.
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I think there’s something wrong with my B.S. detector. Every time an RC talks to me about my lack of ecumenical spirit or crabbiness, the dang thing red lines. Same thing happens when the Kellerites talk winsome and big funnel. The only other time I remember it seeming so out of whack, was when the priests would talk to me about my ‘extra-curricular’ activities under the auspices of pastoral care. Really weird.
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Angel Martin is one of the greatest men to ever live in L.A.
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Erik Charter
Posted July 10, 2013 at 5:55 pm | Permalink
Angel Martin is one of the greatest men to ever live in L.A.
Yeah, but at least Brunhilde knows where to get a decent shave.
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Tom, “somebody has to”? Life serves up plenty of disagreement.
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Jeremy, Keller producing converts to and testimonials from Rome is not your best strategy here.
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Jeremy,
NAPARC is older than TKNY. As for your ignorance of the Reformed world beyond Keller, you seem capable of reading.
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D.G.,
Other than some of Keillor’s stories (which are better to listen to on their own) and some occasional good music I think PHC kind of sucks. I guess I have laughed at some of their joke shows, though.
Some of his Lake Wobegon stuff is Winseburg, Ohio-like (which means it’s good). And then there’s the story about the Lutheran ministers on the pontoon boat.
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Watching a Mad Men rerun. Just realized that the actress who plays Layne Price’s wife also plays Amy (the British lady) on Season 1 of “In Treatment”. And I thought getting used to Linda Cardellini (Lindsay Weir on the timeless classic, “Freaks and Geeks”) playing Sylvia Rosen (Don’s neighbor and mistress) was hard.
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Chortles – “For what shall it profit a denomination, if it shall gain the Big Apple, and lose its Presbyterian soul?”
Erik – But if you can make it there, you’ll make it anywhere.
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I’m reading all these comments after skimming a few of them today. Is a Catholic convert from Presbyterianism really telling us how great the wing of Presbyterianism was that he left for Rome? Gosh, if there all this good maybe we can have no members left. This is like the Democrats encouraging Republicans to pass immigration reform for the sake of the future of the Republican Party.
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Katy – By the way, being well catechized and versed in good doctrine (via Scripture memorization and hymnody) is often the easiest way to be at ease when talking to non-Christians. Churches need their congregants to be well catechized.
Erik – Right on.
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Erik, PHC is corny at times. But I continue to marvel at a format — variety show — that even television won’t do (remember Carol Burnett or Red Skelton?). And to put this on the ever so knowing, public radio, is a phenomenon. Then (and this no host could maintain) there is Keillor’s Christian past. He was reared in some sort of Plymouth Brethren home and the otherworldly references and music come through all the time. I think a lot more is going on than even the knowing public radio listeners know about.
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Erik, she was also played a much younger woman in June Bug.
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D.G.,
By golly you’re right. The only thing I remember about that movie is how Amy Adams loved meerkats,
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My best piece of PHC trivia was how Paul Thomas Anderson got the job of backup director on the movie in case Robert Altman were to keel over. I think Anderson had fallen on some self-created hard times. He got through it and seems to have recovered.
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Anderson’s next movie, “Inherent Vice”. I’m not familiar with the Pynchon novel. This could be like Tarantino turning Elmore Leonard’s “Rum Punch” into “Jackie Brown” (maybe his best movie after “Pulp Fiction”).
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1791528/
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The great opening to “Jackie Brown”:
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As far as R.C. Sproul is concerned I believe certain steps have been taken over the past few years that will lessen the blow, if you will, to Ligonier. The ministry, though it continues its radio ministry, has stepped up its publishing arm on authors other than Sproul, and has focused on the Ligonier Academy, wanting to have a place to train people in theology at differing academic levels.
More likely than not Burk Parsons will be the successor as the main pastor at St. Andrews and then the church will be more about just St. Andrews overall than just “going to hear R.C” (that last line being more about visitors than regular attenders).
All this to say that Ligonier is, for lack of a better phrase, bigger than R.C. and should carry on just fine, particularly since it has become centralized in a single place again (Sanford). L’Abri, it turned out, was bigger than Francis and Edith Schaffer.
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Kedric, follow the money. Will donors be willing to give to a non-R.C. Ligonier? I am sure that some will. But the power of celebrity has remarkable ways of generating funds. When it goes, so goes (some) of the money.
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This article neatly sums up just why Apostolic Succession is a major tenet within the Church Jesus founded as He ascended into Heaven. The Church is BIGGER than just one person!
In the kingdom where Jesus reigns supreme–His holy Church on earth–the cult of celebrity has no place. We are not called to worship or idolize any particular leader; even a pope or other favorite high-ranking cleric. Someday he too will pass on his office to another. Jesus handed the keys of His kingdom to St. Peter, our first Pope–who later left his ministry in Rome to someone else. Teachers, even good ones, come and go. Jesus remains the same, and ever on the Throne–yesterday, today and forever!
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Tony – The Church is BIGGER than just one person!
Erik – Ahem…
http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2012/08/the-audacity-of-pope/
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Is Tony for real? Who’s a bigger religious celebrity than the Pope? He’s got the big hat and the popemobile and whatnot. If they want to really do it up, they’d put that big hat on Joel Osteen. Like a Reese’s cup – two great celebrities in one.
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