At the same time, before a meal it may put you off eating (thanks to our Cumberland Correspondent). The it in question is a video of Tim Keller on sex and marriage in which he portrays Christian married sex as — well — see the video for yourself.
The problems here are at least a couple: 1) without violating my own code, I suspect that if pressed many married couples would not give two thumbs up to all of their sexual encounters. I also bet that many times a husband is in the mood and his spouse is not. (Has Keller not heard of the proverbial headache?) I would even put more money on the notion that baby boomers talk far more about the pleasures of sex than their parents for whom the encounter was part of marital duty (at least for the wife).
This leads to 2): Christians of an older generation (and Keller is by no means a spring chicken — should it be rooster) didn’t talk about sex or bedroom or bathroom matters. Was that wrong? No. Did it mean they were uptight in ways that boomers found constricting? Sure. But was their wisdom in not giving too much information about private matters? Yes. And to keep up this catechism, did problems accompany silence about topics not fit for the sitting room or even the kitchen? Yes. But I have trouble thinking that the current blather about our private lives has resulted in a great cultural advance.
In fact, Keller’s comments may discredit the ministry of the Word since I am not sure that the guy to whom I want to go for pastoral counsel is the one who is doing a video like this.
Then again, he has patented a variety of Teflon that not only keeps all criticism from sticking but that turns adversity into gold. I am truly in awe.
At the same time, as Carl Trueman wonders about the flap between Janet Mefford and Mark Driscoll over allegations of plagiarism, I wonder if the same question applies to Keller: “Is there an evangelical industrial complex out there or is there a morality which transcends and ultimately regulates the evangelical marketplace?” I would simply vary the question to ask whether any cringe factor or sense of propriety regulates evangelical celebrity culture. It surely doesn’t prevail in the world of Hollywood or professional athletics. But shouldn’t we know Christians by their discretion?
Old Life 
Fits the missional-sex-in-the-city-narrative that to be really authentic & relevant, you must “out-celebrate” the pagans on sex.
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Didn’t “authentic” used to be a buzz word? Like, develop authentic relationships with unbelievers for the purpose of converting them? Hmmm, maybe that’s not a good example.
You say “cringe factor,” I say “keepin’ it real.” Honestly, I think that in some evangelical niches the pretense is so extensive that the cringe reflex is dulled. And celebrities always have their legions of defenders.
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Maybe the way Celebs view sex is a great metaphor for how they view the Christian life – not troubled with the reality of Total Depravity. Might keep them a bit more sober in their assessments of both.
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MM – there may also be an element of “cognitive dissonance” (a term coined by behavioral scientists during WWII research that was immediately nabbed by the sales and marketing organization within most corporations) at work here; no matter what the celebrity says, if I’m a supporter I’ll find ways make it sound good. ‘Course, that’s only true as long as the celebrity’s particular brand of spiel is popular. As soon as something else comes along and takes its place they can hastily find themselves playing 2nd fiddle … which is why the more clever ones are always finding new ways to reinvent themselves.
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Porn is like quantitative easing, and Christian married life is like living in a Cialis commercial.
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DGH can rest secure knowing that if he pulls a celebrity stunt we’ll be driving into Hillsdale with pitchforks.
You’re welcome.
George, it’s times like this that I’m glad I have been spared the trials of celebrity and wealth. My kids wreck my stuff, my secretary kicks me, and the wife shooshes me to the attic where company won’t see me.
On second thought, I would pay for a little cognitive dissonance. How does that work?
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See, if you promise people health and wealth, that’s the prosperity gospel and it’s bad.
But if you promise to fix people’s marital problems and give them a lifetime of great sex, it’s the new hip evangelicalism and it’s good.
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Ummm, I hate to mention this but in the documentary ‘Friends of God’, one of Ted Haggard’s selling points for evangelicalism was; ‘evangelicals have great sex’. Now , I don’t want too make to much of the parallel, but, I’m justa sayin’ The rest of it makes me sad.
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MM – cognitive dissonance is where you keep a stash of booze in your attic so that when your wife shooshes you up there you can always come back down with a smile on your face.
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There’s a new addition to the ordination vow where the minister must profess to “have a smokin’ hot wife.”
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Got it covered, George. And to be civically responsible I’m supporting two local businesses – Templeton Rye Whiskey and Cedar Valley Bourbon Whiskey. Instead of “every square inch” it’s “no shot left behind.”
But what I really want is for someone to have cognitive dissonance about me. “Wow, that Mikelmann is a big shot, whatever he said must be right.” For that I offer half my kingdom.
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“evangelicals have great sex”
perhaps another reason some of the confessionally Reformed deny they are evangelicals?
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Well, MM, you just got your wish. I can’t afford quality stuff like that Templeton and Cedar Ridge (at least I think you meant “ridge;” never heard of any “Cedar Valley” bourbon) on a fixed income. I have to settle settle for the Jim Beam level stuff – or worse. So, I have cognitive dissonance about my JB over and against your high dollar spirits. So there!
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RL, re: Cialis commercials — I put a pair of those matching his-and-hers bathtubs in my backyard and all I got was a breeding area for mosquitoes. Thank you very little.
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But CW, imagine what a grand time those mosquitos are having with each other!
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Chorts, when I take cialis I set my timer for five hours just in case.
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Yes and no, Darryl.
But Tim should most certainly have said “no thanks” to participating in this one.
Bogey for the doc, and onto the next hole. Let’s hope he erases the deficit(emoticon).
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“But shouldn’t we know Christians by their discretion?”
Why would we assume that Christians are more discrete than non-Christians?
There is a more charitable explanation; namely that as he grows older his ability to appreciate the simple pleasures in life increase.
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Chris, as one with respect for Dr. Keller, I appreciate his intentions here, but find his approach lacking tact. There’s a reason I don’t talk politics or religion at work. Likewise, Christians may be wise to avoid posting on YouTube about their sexlife.
Anyway, the OPC, the only church for me. Not sure why God placed me in this church, but it’s where I will stay. PCA kinda worries me, at times. Take care.
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I think the mistake Keller makes is to describe his own sex life with his wife. Otherwise, the point he makes is generally true and supported by research. Having sex within a relationship is better sex than sex without a relatonship. (Recent study showed that college women who are in a relationship as opposed to a hookup are more likely to achieve orgasm.) Perhaps nothing more is at work than “practice makes perfect.” At any rate the point Keller is trying to make is worth making and could have been made without reference to his own sexual experience.
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Chris E., what happened to a Christian w-w?
Your spin of Keller resembles KENLOSES interpretation of Pope Francis.
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“Chris E., what happened to a Christian w-w?”
I don’t know, I wasn’t aware that you subscribed to it.
I agree incidentally with Bill and Andrew, there was quite a big problem with tact and personalisation. I would just disagree that the only explanation is that he endorsed a Cialis advert view of the world.
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Listen men, real man here — it’s obvious what Timmy’s tryin’ to do here. “Sex in the City” is a proven concept but it only works with HOT CHICKS. He just wusses this thing up! Let me tell you how I would approach this: um…my Kindle battery died. Get back to you. Stay thirsty my freinds. LATER DUDES.
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Chris E., but you do subscribe to w-w. So why not use it here? BTW, the point was not about ED. It was about discretion.
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But, Bill, that’s not the only mistake. It’s also to trade in false hope, as in not only to assume satisfaction is king but also that sound relating begets satisfaction. Satisfaction is highly subjective and plenty of unsound relaters report being satisfied and sound relaters report dissatisfaction. Not too unlike getting away scot free with sin and getting kicked in the teeth for doing right. Life is more complicated than worldviewers purport.
Still, how does Woody Allen nail it without the right paraview or worlddigm: “Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.”
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And dudes, I’ve totally had visions of the Keller business and let me tell you — compared to what happens it Driscollia it’s NOT THAT GREAT. Lates.
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TKNY’s just now creeping up on the age where his hormone levels will start bumping up against the “E” indicator on the tank. After a few more years the next interview will contain, “Meh, not so much…”
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I’ve benefited much Keller’s writings, but when he addresses what the Bible says concerning sexuality,his voice is pretty muted. He introduces concepts like “human flourishing” as the issue by which extra-marital or homosexual acts are judged.
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“Chris E., but you do subscribe to w-w. So why not use it here?”
Even with w-w “This corruption of nature doth persist, yea in them that are regenerate”, otherwise all w-ws would be perfectionists.
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the new standard?
http://thegospelcoalition.org/themelios/review/the_meaning_of_marriage_facing_the_complexities_of_commitment
See him at his meal,
Praying now to feel
(Piper, The Calvinist)
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