I continue to be fascinated by the idea of Scottish independence. In Prospect Magazine this morning I read this account of Scottish Calvinism in David Marquand’s case for a federalist solution to the United Kingdom’s discomfort:
. . . the Scottish government is — implicitly at least — social-democratic. It seeks independence to protect Scottish social democracy against the market fundamentalism of the London government, both within the UK and in its dealings with the EU. The roots of Scottish social democracy go deep. The political cultures of all the non-English nations of Great Britain are very different from their English counterparts. As a civil servant in the Welsh education department put it in my hearing not long ago, the overarching theme of UK governance can be summed up as “choice, competition, customer.” The Welsh equivalent is: “voice, cooperation, citizen.” . . . But ever since Mrs Thatcher crossed the threshold of No 10 all UK governments, irrespective of party, have been in thrall to the imperatives of what Philip Bobbitt, the legal historian and philosopher, has called the “market state.” These imperatives have not only violated the underlying assumptions of Scotland’s political culture; they have also trampled on the religious traditions with which that culture is intertwined. Scotland’s religious traditions are Roman Catholic and Calvinist. Both reject the Hayekian market individualism of Thatcher and the watered down version of it that prevailed under Blair and Brow. Two particularly egregious Thatcherisms stank in Scottish nostrils: her dictum that no one would remember the Good Samaritan if he hadn’t had the money to give effect to his good intentions; and her notorious “sermon on the mound,” in which she insisted that since Christ chose to lay down his life, freedom of choice was the essence of Christianity.
I have no quarrel with Scottish social democrats, nor with the parish ideals that inspired the Free Church of Scotland in the days of Thomas Chalmers. Let Scottish Presbyterians be Scottish Presbyterians. But why Calvinism is responsible for this social outlook when we on the other side of the Atlantic regularly hear about Calvinism’s market friendly and individualistic ways, I don’t understand. Could it be that Calvinism is just as plastic as evangelicalism? The seer sees what she wants to see.
Old Life 
Gotta remember: the “sermon on the mound” was delivered to the GA of the CofS- which even in the 80s had long been a roiling pool of liberalism and leftyism. It wasn’t particularly Calvinist either. There has, I believe, always been a strong social democratic current in the Free Church: or so some have said. But there’s also always been a strong work ethic in the Reformed community in Scotland and a “helping people help themselves” attitude, with an emphasis on a spiritual rather than economic transformation. And of course the Scottish “elite” and aristocracy tend to be more mainline or episcopalian (or heathen). So the church/politics situation in Scotland is complex.
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From Free Church Facebook friends I have noticed a shift towards support for independence and increasing distaste for the Tories, which seem to be all but extinct in Scotland.
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If I recall correctly, the Tories currently have 1 Scottish MP, which is, believe it or not, better than they’ve managed in other periods in in recent times in which they have formed the government at Westminster. Such is the democratic deficit which the pro-independence campaigners ably address.
As it is, the Tories have most to gain from Scottish independence, as they would ditch the 50-odd Labour MPs which any future Labour government would need for its Westminster majority, securing a generational advantage in England over their traditional rivals. The SNP have most to lose, as it’s not likely that they would hold together after independence, this being the policy platform which holds together an otherwise very diverse group of interests, and it’s more than plausible they would give way to an enduring Labour majority in the Scottish parliament.
The religious aspect to this is fascinating. The “white paper” published by the “yes” campaign makes no reference at all to religion – which is astonishing, given questions about the future of the established church – and it’s free to download or order in paper if you go to the website. I haven’t lived in Scotland for almost 20 years, so am totally out of touch with the opinion of Christians. But contrary to what I think other posters have argued, independence does not violate the Solemn League and Covenant (1643), which was adopted by both governments when their independent parliaments shared a common monarch (from 1603 until 1707) – a situation to which both countries would return in the event of a “yes” vote on 18 Sept.
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No one has addressed the most important aspect of all this. What will it do to the price of Scotch?
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No word yet on any Dutch-American Belgic 36 based hegemony being declared from Visalia.
Dr. K has not yet crossed the Rubicon.
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cg, you mean this wouldn’t take us back to Robert the Bruce as portrayed by Mel Gibson? I vote no.
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Mel Gibson was playing William Wallace … who looked uncannily like Mel Gibson, if you visit the Wallace Monument statue in Stirling …
Stirling is spectacular though.
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Thatcher was a monetarist (quasi free market). Hayek was an Austrian (anti monetarist).
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But why Calvinism is responsible for this social outlook when we on the other side of the Atlantic regularly hear about Calvinism’s market friendly and individualistic ways, I don’t understand.
Dr. Hart, perhaps you’d like to engage Barry Alan Shain’s thesis
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/5618.html
that Calvinists aren’t as much about “freedom” in the abstract than as about the freedom to break away and form one’s own community, without people such as myself harassing it with their own theological freedom of speech.
See, I can respect that, Dr. Hart, and you, Darryl, as a reputed human person. You and Erik and a handful of others would just congratulate each other about how saved and properly worshipful you are.
If the Catholics, ex-Calvinists, and even current some Presbyterians who jump into the comments box are all bogus, I do think you should restrict the comments box of this “theological society” . That leaves you and Erik, pretty much.
As for Shain’s “Myth of American Individualism,” I’ve come to agree with it, especially after observing a Calvinist like you and yours at work. You need your own separate plantation just like the Puritans did, and this is it.
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vd, t, that’s odd. Shain doesn’t mention Beza, you’re favorite Calvinism. Go figure.
But in case you missed it, the article in this post was about Scotland. You don’t seem to be capable of considering Calvinism outside the American context (except for your baseball card of Beza).
Respect Jesus.
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cg, Whatever. William Wallace and Robert the Bruce were both Calvinists.
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The real point is that they both look like Mel Gibson…
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D. G. Hart
Posted June 4, 2014 at 2:10 am | Permalink
vd, t, that’s odd. Shain doesn’t mention Beza, you’re favorite Calvinism. Go figure.
But in case you missed it, the article in this post was about Scotland. You don’t seem to be capable of considering Calvinism outside the American context (except for your baseball card of Beza).
Why the Puritans left the old country. Sorry if this gets too complicated for you sometimes. As for Beza, that’s a subject you conspicuously avoid.
Respect Jesus
Did Jesus call people filthy names, Dr. Dirty Mouth? Not following you here.
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Tom,
I do apologize to you for being rude. I don’t think we’re ever going to get anywhere in these debates, but I shouldn’t be rude to you. If I’m the professed Christian I need to be the one to take the high road, so I will try to do that in the future.
If I pass the peace pipe your way will you take a puff?
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Erik Charter
Posted June 4, 2014 at 9:42 pm | Permalink
Tom,
I do apologize to you for being rude. I don’t think we’re ever going to get anywhere in these debates, but I shouldn’t be rude to you. If I’m the professed Christian I need to be the one to take the high road, so I will try to do that in the future.
If I pass the peace pipe your way will you take a puff?
Seventy times seven, brother.
You don’t remember us having this same conversation maybe 214 times before? Not that I’m counting, mind you. 😉
As for getting anywhere in these debates, I’m not really debating. I’d hoped to learn something about Theodore Beza and his De jure magistratuum or perhaps Calvin’s commentary on Daniel from a reputable–or at least reputed–scholar of history and of Reformed theology. Such dual threats are quite rare indeed–one or the other perhaps, but not both.
But if the search for that theo-political/historical truth has been unrequited–and it has–I have learned many other valuable things about Calvinism [and Calvinists] at this here “theological society.” All is not lost.
And if nothing else, it certainly has been a vivid test of Jesusian math. So sure, EC, pass that Big Bong of Peace over this way and I’ll take a big ol’ hit.
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Well, that leaves 276 more freebies!
Just kidding, just kidding.
I think Hart is reputable, but I think you’ve insulted him (and him you) way too many times at this point and now it’s just a contest to see who can get each other’s goat the most. It’s not very fun or edifying to watch, but I don’t help matters by chiming in and adding fuel to the fire.
One of you just needs to be the bigger man and knock it off.
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Erik Charter
Posted June 4, 2014 at 10:44 pm | Permalink
Well, that leaves 276 more freebies!
Just kidding, just kidding.
I think Hart is reputable, but I think you’ve insulted him (and him you) way too many times at this point and now it’s just a contest to see who can get each other’s goat the most. It’s not very fun or edifying to watch, but I don’t help matters by chiming in and adding fuel to the fire.
One of you just needs to be the bigger man and knock it off.
The Big Bong of Peace swaddles most every communique from this quarter. GBS wasn’t a Calvinist let alone even a Christian, but managed to conduct himself as one.
http://reformclub.blogspot.com/2006/02/reform-club-past-and-future-meal-not_08.html
Cheers, EC. You too, D. Now there’s the proper way to handle nicotine and theology.
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Props on the math, Erik. 😉 We have achieved a lingua franca.
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vd, t, Jefferson was not a Puritan; 1776 was not 1629. Are you David Barton?
Love John Winthrop.
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D. G. Hart
Posted June 5, 2014 at 12:08 am | Permalink
vd, t, Jefferson was not a Puritan; 1776 was not 1629. Are you David Barton?
Love John Winthrop.
Toke on EC’s peace pipe, Uncle Screwtape, and maybe it’ll straighten you out. Nobody else can follow your twists, not even Erik, and he loves you so much more than John Winthrop.
Shain’s “Myth of American Individualism” is right in the zone of what you yourself wrote here
https://oldlife.org/2014/06/didnt-god-want-israelites-tribal/
We’re all brothers here. Discussion is possible rather than debate; charity, kindness. I think you’ve been prescient if not prophetic about America—that we could never nobly save, and will meanly lose, the last best hope of earth.
I have always suspected you were right. I only objected to us meanly losing it. I always got you just fine.
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vd, t, but I don’t really care about America. That’s what you don’t get. This world is not my home. Judgment day matters. I know, fundy and all. But until you consider that God is more important than the culture, you won’t get me or a number of the folks who read and write here.
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Tom- These are mainly converts to Calvinism. They didn’t grow up in the culture. They brought their Baptist hymnals and still like singing “I’ll Fly Away”.
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err… “reared”
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GAS-X, only the Alison Krauss and Gillian Welch version from the “O Brother…” soundtrack. But where have you been? This is the group that shudders to find those awful red revivalist hymnbooks in Reformed churches alongside blue Psalters. A white Bible in between would make A2K ethos complete.
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iggy, you come from four generations of Tea Party w-w?
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I don’t understand: why are there hymnals in any Reformed churches?
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Alexander, short answer: Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield. Who needs the psalms when you have Watts and Wesley?
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A-ha! Just as I claimed! Former Prime Minister claims the Tories are playing into the hands of the Scottish nationalists:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10885955/David-Cameron-is-ruining-case-for-Scotland-to-remain-part-of-UK-Gordon-Brown-warns.html
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cg, also interesting to see that the 2 state solution favored by Obama doesn’t work for Scotland.
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