Still waiting for Jason and the Callers to weigh in on these matters:
In life, Archbishop Fulton Sheen was exceptional, a riveting Catholic preacher on radio who outpolled star comedian Milton Berle in the early days of television, winning two Emmys and a following that was the envy of Bible-thumping Protestants.
After his death in 1979, it was no surprise that Sheen would be pushed for sainthood. But now two bishops have clashed in an unusual public dispute over who holds claim to Sheen’s body: the New York archdiocese, where he is buried, or the diocese of Peoria, Ill., where he was raised and ordained.
The fight between Illinois Bishop Daniel Jenky and Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York erupted into public view Wednesday, when Jenky issued a statement blasting the New York archdiocese for thwarting Sheen’s expected beatification next year by reneging on an agreement to return the late archbishop’s body to Peoria.
“Bishop Jenky was personally assured on several occasions by the Archdiocese of New York that the transfer of the body would take place at the appropriate time,” the Peoria diocese said in a statement.
The statement said that senior Vatican officials were set to approve a miracle attributed to Sheen’s intervention — the revival after an hour of a stillborn baby — clearing the way for him to be beatified in a few months, the final step before formal canonization, which would require a second miracle.
Rome expected that Sheen’s body would be transferred from the crypt under St. Patrick’s Cathedral, where he is buried, to Peoria to collect relics from the body, the Illinois diocese said. Peoria has been in charge of Sheen’s cause for canonization since it was opened in 2002. In 2012, then-Pope Benedict XVI declared Sheen “venerable,” a requisite first step before beatification.
But the New York archdiocese denied Jenky’s request to move the body and “after further discussion with Rome, it was decided that the Sheen Cause would now have to be relegated to the Congregation’s historic archive.”
The Callers’ spin? The veneration of relics is biblical:
I began to appreciate was just how biblical the practice really was. I realized that the veneration of relics, belief in their miraculous powers, and in the intercession of departed saints and angels was deeply Hebraic and Jewish.
Never mind how deeply political and messy and unedifying the making of saints is. Just set your mind on things above (except when you’re receiving notices from the Vatican and looking at maps on your way to the remains of your favorite saint).
An unmarked grave remains Calvin’s last stroke of genius (though I imagine he may turn in it every October 31 or whenever there are Reformationpaloozas).
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Z – that’s a different take on spin.
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“Never mind how deeply political and messy and unedifying the making of saints is.”
As was the background of many of the ecumenical councils. As was the background of the Reformation and its divergent outcomes. As was (as many liberals and non-believers will say) the formalization of the canon. Something being political and messy does not invalidate it automatically.
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foxy lady, so you’re saying that because Alexander VI was a vicious pope, we shouldn’t expect the bishops or priests to be virtuous? It’s all good, right?
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I don’t know why you think what I said entails your conclusion (“So you’re saying…”) – sure it’d be nice if everyone in the church was wheat and not tares and we didn’t live in a fallen world. But not happening (2k remember?). Doesn’t mean God cannot work through those means – if He can’t then bye-bye Reformation and the (whichever ones you like) ecumenical councils as divinely approved. That does not mean we should be apathetic and sit around (“it’s all good”) – false dichotomy – there’s a mean between indifference and trust in providence.
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DG, save your fingernail clippings next time you trim and mail them to me. They might be worth something some day…ya know, if the Reformedish keep trending Romeward.
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DG, save your fingernail clippings next time you trim and mail them to me. They might be worth something some day…ya know, if the Reformedish keep trending Romeward.
Why not just his cigar butts and ash trays, and portions from the Hart’s kitty litter? I can see it now….” Oh Saint Deegh…. grant me the sanctified spirit of snark”….
I literally threw up in my mouth while typing that. Relics are worse than bad antiques. Blech. I am going to wash my hands now.
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Foxy lady, so where does your church go for the mean? When is there any discipline like in the old days? Remember, you’re engaging the modern world now since 1965 — all that pre-Vat 2 stuff of opposing the modern world won’t do.
‘s’all good.
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Jed, the funny thing is that I wear my deceased father’s high school ring. I also believe he’s a saint. And some apologists say that’s all the relics are. But I know the ring isn’t holy nor does it communicate grace. Duh.
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Talk about fine print:
Saved through the bodies of the dead? But isn’t Jesus alive?
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Uhhh how do I say this?
Uhmm DG, I think you missed the fanatical print.
Further on the article says:
It is no minor thing to have the body of a saint at the heart of a local Church, something those of us across the Atlantic tend to forget. I will offer no opinion here on which local Church should win, save by reminding the participants of a well-established custom, saints have heads and bodies. Relics, even major ones, are divisible. How advantageous to a cult to have two centers of veneration?
Is this an argument for what ISIS is becoming known for?
You know, where the article talks previously about “the attendant removal of first-class relics“.
Sort of a quid pro quo, ‘we get the head, you get the feet’ kind of a deal?
Where’s the “nothing that I have said is incompatible with an erroneous paradigm” character to explain all this?
The same responsible for this:
St. Paul wrote his letter (Romans) to our principal Church, and his bones, as well as those of St. Peter, are buried in Rome, St. Peter’s being under the high altar of St. Peter’s Basilica. You have no Apostolic letters written to your congregation in Texas, or your PCA denomination founded in 1973. You have no bones of the Apostles.
So there we have it, boys and girls?
Reading between the lines and comparing nonsense with itself, forget about dividing things in two, it’s all about the bones.
IOW no bones about it, the absence of any bones means our separated brother bona fides are no good and we are without the pale. Dunno, but my private judgment says that beats the “removal of first class relics” aka idolatry, before or after death.
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Cletus,
Doesn’t mean God cannot work through those means – if He can’t then bye-bye Reformation and the (whichever ones you like) ecumenical councils as divinely approved. That does not mean we should be apathetic and sit around (“it’s all good”) – false dichotomy – there’s a mean between indifference and trust in providence.
The point isn’t that God CAN’T work through such means. The point is that it strains credulity to believe the same church that approved the Inquisition, thought we were going to hell but now doesn’t, today wants to give peace a chance but good luck during the Reformation, etc. etc. is infallible whenever it says it is, especially in the light of such nonsense that Darryl is pointing out.
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IRISH CATHOLICKS- 31 MICHIGAN WASP WITH FLAT CAPS thinking they are RC-000000000000000000000 Goose friggin egg. Put that in your waspy roo cap!
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Papal audacity bends rules in the making of
sausagesaints:Who is he to judge?
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