When You Know You're a Protestant

Published on by D. G. Hart

I’ve traveled far and wide the past few days (only Cordelia and Mark Jones care) — to Samford University for a conference on teaching Augustine in the Great Books curriculum, to Trinity PCA in Montgomery, Alabama, to teach Sunday school on Christianity and politics, and now to Philadelphia for Christian Education Committee meetings for the OPC. In examining facilities, I am aware of a great disparity among Southern Baptists, the PCA, and Orthodox Presbyterians.

Samford is a lovely campus, leafy, hilly, substantial quads, uniform architecture. It is not Baylor or Furman, but it is a formidable institution. The OPC has no college. Covenant College has its moments, but it would come in a few notches in University Architecture and Physical Plant Digest behind Samford. The OPC has no college.

Trinity PCA in Montgomery is sumptuous. I spoke in a room that any luxury hotel would be glad to have as a ballroom. Church offices were large, numerous, and well appointed. It makes the OPC’s headquarters look like a junior high school compared to College Hall at the University of Pennsylvania.

And yet, to compare the OPC’s headquarters to one of the PCA’s tall-steeple churches is unfair. I’ve not been to the PCA’s headquarters, but I suspect that First Church, Jackson, or Briarwood in Birmingham, or First Church Macon, Georgia would also make the PCA’s offices look like an OPC operation. The real comparison is between headquarters and headquarters, and congregation and congregation.

And that is how you know you’re a Protestant. Chances are that all of our wealthiest and most numerous congregations have better facilities than the central denominational offices.

But can any diocese or archbishop’s residence among the Roman Catholic bishops compare with Vatican City? I’m sure Milan or Munich have magnificent facilities. But like the Vatican. In Roman Catholicism you have a clear center and periphery. Among Protestants, localism prevails and the center does not measure up (even if it holds in other ways).

26 thoughts on “When You Know You're a Protestant”

  3. Speaking of the OPC, schools, and architecture, I have found it curious how those who would lament the so-called secularization of general society meet to worship in buildings that (by design) resemble secular office space or elementary schools. I understand the realities of limited resources and the problems of externalism, but if form really does matter as much as content one would think more effort would go into making a church look like sacred space.

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  5. sacred phallic symbols?

    but not solely symbolic also creative and effectual signs?

    high ceiling as a seal of transcendence?

    Hebrews 11: 8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God

    Hebrews 11: 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— 38 of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

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  6. Hebrews 13: 14 For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. 15 Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. 16 Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

    John 4: 19 The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” 21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father…

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  7. Check out the concluding chapter on architecture in John Murray Cuddihy, No Offense: Civil Religion and Protestant Taste…

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  8. Zrim, we built a building (moved in about three years ago) that looks like a church rather than a carpet warehouse or hotel conference center. There is nothing ostentatious about it — the materials and finishes are what you’d find in any average home or commercial building. But we put them together differently and incorporated some historically ecclesial elements like high ceilings, a raised central pulpit, clerestory windows, and a steeple (I wanted a tower). You know you’re not at sales meeting or academic conference when you’re in our building, but it is still quite plain in a Scots-New England puritan way. It’s a good place to hear a sermon, sing congregationally, and observe the sacraments — that’s what it was built for.

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  10. Jack, right, which is what I meant by the problems of externalism. Jesus may be wherever two or three are gathered in his name (Baptists ecclesiology alert), but aren’t they saying something by making that place appeal more to consumers than worshipers?

    C-dubs, ding. Is it really so hard to do otherworldly, simplicity, reverence, and austerity simultaneously?

    Darryl, true but I’ve seen some Dutch pay six figures to rehab the organ, which may be infuriating for a host of reasons, but at least it shows they’re able when they care enough. But didn’t Leon Brown recently and nonchalantly say he was coming out of a Walmart?

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  11. Z, one of the travesties of modern church buildings is that they are windowless boxes — sometimes to facilitate accursed lighting effects and video, sometimes out of mere stupidity, sometimes in the name of efficiency. Some connection with/reference to the creation is appropriate when worshiping the Creator, even if it’s just a little wood grain and blue sky or sunlight..

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  12. In defense of (some) windowless boxes:

    My church is not “big enough” for its own building, so we rent office space on the main street of town and use the facilities of the winery adjacent.

    The acoustics of the wood floors make singing a joy. The natural light from the business front windows helps.

    Still, I hope that one day we can move into a building described by Mr. Weakly. Maybe the PC(USA) church with 11 (and dwindling) members will give us their building…

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  15. JAS, an upside to using a winery could be that it keeps (certain kinds of) Baptists away, which is still only secondary and preferable.

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  16. D.G. – Covenant College has its moments, but it would come in a few notches in University Architecture and Physical Plant Digest behind Samford.

    They let you near the Covenant College campus? Michael Horton was tarred & feathered there, so beware.

    I think the URCNA’s headquarters is a p.o. box. When they were drawn into the Edouard civil suit they basically replied, “hey dude, we have no physical presence or assets” and they were correct. They learned many lessons from the CRC experience.

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  18. J.A. – My church is not “big enough” for its own building, so we rent office space on the main street of town and use the facilities of the winery adjacent.

    That’s awesome. Only a brewpub would be better.

    A building should be decent enough to not turn anyone away. First impressions are important with visitors. Same thing with not having a 2 hour service when 1 hour will suffice. We’re austere as Reformed people, but let’s not be unnecessarily austere. Also, pay for some decent coffee.

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  19. Zrim: “JAS, an upside to using a winery could be that it keeps (certain kinds of) Baptists away, which is still only secondary and preferable.”

    Without getting to bashy on Babdits, I’d settle for them not confusing “Presbyterian” with “Pentecostal.”

    Erik: “That’s awesome. Only a brewpub would be better.”

    One day in the eschaton, my friend.

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  24. Our friends at ACE/Ref21 aka Carl & the midgets nicely include baptists under the large “R” Reformed camp:

    “The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is a broad coalition of evangelical pastors, scholars, and churchmen from various denominations, including Baptist, Congregational (Independent), Anglican (Episcopal), Presbyterian, Reformed, and Lutheran who hold the historic creeds and confessions of the Reformed faith and who proclaim biblical doctrine in order to foster a Reformed awakening in today’s Church. The purpose of the Alliance’s existence is to call the Church, amidst a dying culture, to repent of its worldliness, to recover and confess the truth of God’s Word as did the reformers, and to see that truth embodied in doctrine, worship, and life.”

    http://www.alliancenet.org/CC_Content_Page/0,,PTID307086_CHID798774_CIID,00.html

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  26. If you have only met a group of sabbatarian baptists who call themselves “Reformed Baptists”, they probably never told you that there was a first London Baptist Confession, not to be confused with the 1689 Confession. You might not like that confession but you can’t say it’s a copy because it came before the WCF. Then again, neither does the First London Baptist Confession teach that the Mosaic covenant is an administration of something called “the covenant of grace”.

    https://oldlife.org/2014/10/know-youre-protestant/comment-page-1/#comment-156544westminster

    All mankind being thus fallen, and become altogether dead in sins and trespasses, and subject to the eternal wrath of the great God by transgression; yet the elect, which God has(1) loved with an everlasting love, are(2) redeemed, quickened, and saved, not by themselves, neither by their own works, lest any man should boast himself, but wholly and only by God of(3) His free grace and mercy through Jesus Christ, who of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption, that as it is written he that rejoices, let him rejoice in the Lord.

    That Christ Jesus by His death did bring fourth salvation and reconciliation only for the(1) elect, which were those which(2) God the Father gave Him; and that the Gospel which is to be preached to all men as the ground of faith, is, that(3) Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the ever blessed God, filled with the perfection of all heavenly and spiritual excellencies, and that salvation is only and alone to be had through the believing in His name.

    That faith is the(1) gift of God wrought in the hearts of the elect by the Spirit of God, whereby they come to see, know, and believe the truth of the(2) Scriptures, and not only so, but the excellency of them above all other writing and things in the world, as they hold forth the glory of God in His attributes, the excellency of Christ in His nature and offices, and the power of the fullness of the Spirit in His workings and operations; and thereupon are enabled to cast themselves upon this truth thus believed.

    Those that have this precious faith wrought in them by the Spirit, can never finally nor totally fall away; and though many storms and floods do arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon, but shall be kept by the power of God to salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being formerly engraven upon the palms of God’s hands.

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