What Must I Do to be Left Behind from Evangelicalism?

I have long complained that evangelicalism is one of those associations from which it is impossible to extricate yourself. Ron Wells, one of the editors of The Reformed Journal, used to joke that he would be glad to return his evangelical membership card but didn’t know where to send it. The bigger joke may have been the idea that evangelicals actually issued membership cards. It’s one thing to be on a mailing list. It’s another to belong to a duly constituted body.

John Fea proposes thirteen questions for determining whether you are an evangelical. I paste them below and offer my own answers:

1. Do you attend a church of over 2000 people? I suppose this refers to a congregation, in which case I say no. But I do go to a church — the OPC — that is small but not that small. The lesson may be that evangelicalism has a bias against connectionalism (read presbyterian polity).

2. Have you studied at, or do you work at, a college that identified itself as a “Christian college?” Yes, but only for a year. What happens if I transferred to a secular university? Does evangelicalism still claim me?

3. Have you seen the rapture movie A Thief in the Night? (I could have probably asked if they read the Left Behind series of novels by Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye). I have seen the movie. It was part of the cinematic fare of my home congregation’s youth group. But what if I now vote strongly against any proposal before session that calls for our OPC congregation to show the movie?

4. Have you been to any of the following Christian Bible conferences: Word of Life, Camp of the Woods, Harvey Cedars, America’s Keswick, Sandy Cove, or Rumney Bible Conference? (Remember, this is an east coast group) Not only have I been there, but for two summers I worked in the kitchen at Sandy Cove and sang tenor (one summer) and bass (another) with the Sandy Cove Choralaires (we even performed the Ralph Carmichael Christian teen folk musical, “Tell it Like it Is” at the affiliated youth camp, Hilltop Ranch. (I’m still in recovery.)

5. Did you vote for George Bush in 2000 or 2004? Yes, but I still don’t sense corporate guilt.

6. Have you been on a short-term mission trip? Does doing something Christian outside the United States count? How about teaching at a seminary in Brazil?

7. Have you attended a Billy Graham or other evangelistic crusade? Yes and yes. I am pretty sure my parents took me to the 1962 Philadelphia Crusade. And in 2002 we went to the San Diego Crusade under the false pretense that this would be the evangelist’s last. I still worry that I am on some terrorist organization’s list for having attended a Crusade (and for having rooted for the Wheaton College Crusaders before they became the Wheaton College Thunder.)

8. Have you read Josh McDowell’s Evidence That Demands a Verdict? Hallelujah! No.

9. Have you read something by C.S. Lewis? Darn! Yes.

10. Do you listen to Christian radio? Yes. But let me explain. I generally have on the radio as background noise. For most of the week it is Sports Talk Radio (from Philadelphia). This drives the missus batty and keeps me near the dog house. In the car I listen to NPR. On Sundays I stream Family Radio in the background. It is all about nostalgia. My parents had on Family Radio during the whole week. It is one way I remember my parents and treat the Lord’s Day as a day set apart. You get occasionally a good hymn.

11. Do you have a Thomas Kinkade painting in your house? Hades, no.

12. Have you read Rick Warren’s The Purpose Driven Life? Yes, but it was for a review in Modern Reformation (when it had an edge).

13. Do you read or subscribe to Christianity Today? Yes, but not for edification and I place my hands over my eyes.

Fea speculates:

I then told them that if they answered yes to more than half of these questions there is a good chance that they might be an evangelical.

It looks to me like I have at least 8 yes answers. That makes me an evangelical. It also tightens my jaws.

I wonder if John should change his questions to something like, “do you still do or recommend X, Y, or Z”? I wonder too if I’ll ever be delivered from being an evangelical? You write three books critical of born-again Protestantism and you find you’re still part of the tribe. Is this how Garry Wills feels about Roman Catholicism?

150 thoughts on “What Must I Do to be Left Behind from Evangelicalism?

  1. Stole this to fill out on my (shameless plug) blog. Click my name, yadda yadda yadda.

    I’d also add “Do you follow any of the ‘Real Preachers of LA’ on Twitter”?


  2. D.G. – “Yes, but only for a year. What happens if I transferred to a secular university? Does evangelicalism still claim me?”

    Depends. Did you join Intervarsity, Cru, or The Navs?


  3. ” Have you seen the rapture movie A Thief in the Night?”

    I’ve seen it, but got bogged down in the sheer badness of the sequels. My church meets in the church where the guillotine scenes were filmed. Every Sunday when I park in the lot I envision the guillotine sitting there.

    We meet on evangelical holy ground.


  4. D.G. – “And in 2002 we went to the San Diego Crusade under the false pretense that this would be the evangelist’s last.”

    People who attended Motley Crue’s recent tour stops took on the same risk.


  5. Number 10 should be heavily weighted though. Christian radio is utterly vital to the whole project in ways certain books and paintings just aren’t. But even as a hopeless nostalgic myself, I’m hard pressed to justify its consumption on any day of the week.

    (“When it had an edge.” Ouch.)


  6. Mod Ref’s losing its edge and things like R. Scott Clark wavering between 2K and Culture Warrior likely has a lot to do with who is paying the bills at Westminster West. Endowed Professorships don’t come cheap and wealthy Republican Dutch donors likely don’t have much of a taste for nuance or irony. Such is life.


  7. Erik: People who attended Motley Crue’s recent tour stops took on the same risk.

    Even Black Flag still tours. New singer(s)!


  8. Erik: Depends. Did you join Intervarsity, Cru, or The Navs?

    Guilty. Helped found the “Greek” version at (The) San Diego State.


  9. Whoa…

    Merely seeing or attending makes you one?

    Fairer to ask if you agreed with the message of A Thief in the Night then and still do 35 years later.

    Do you believe that the ringers you recruited for your Word of Life basketball team, that went forward after 80 minutes of getting yelled at, and didn’t show any sign of regeneration the rest of their life, were saved?

    If you heard they had died, would you think they are in heaven because of going forward? If given the opportunity at their funeral would you boldly declare they are in heaven because of that basketball tourney?


  10. The test isn’t whether you saw a movie like Thief In the Night. The test is whether you were self-raptured during the film or were you left behind.

    Other than that, I don’t care about the distinctions. Each group of Christians has their good and bad points. I would be more worried if I didn’t think learn from anybody.


  11. 5/13, but that may be deceiving as I gave myself a half point for two different questions–my wife attended Word of Life camp and my son has been on a short term missions trip. So I’m what, sub-evangelical? (Many of my “no”s were likely due to having spent 40+ years in the fundy wilderness [e.g. never went to anything Billy Graham].)


  12. Darryl: As usual, you have in one fail swoop shown the weakness of my quiz. Oh well, at least it got you engaged and triggered a nice discussion around the net. Indeed, I am sure that many post-evangelicals would score very high on this quiz. Remember the context–I was giving the quiz to a group of baby boomer evangelicals attending an Evangelical Free Church. Anyway, thanks for the post.

    BTW, I am glad to hear you are still listening to Family Radio. I thought you might have changed the channel after Harold Camping went off the air! 🙂


  13. I’m afraid we’ve all been primates (Evangelicals) before we evolved into Sasquatch-Giganticus (Semi-Pelagians), and are just now evolving again to shed our body hair and walk completely upright (Christian Perfectionists-Wesleyans)…………..

    No ‘Darwin Icthus’ on my rear window or bumper (just so you know).


  14. Darryl, we’re even–I sometimes patron Walmart and am open to cremation. I blame the vrouw who hasn’t shaken off all the evangelicalism though. Maybe patronizing Walmart should be another trait.


  15. I only had to admit to the marks. I went to Bob Jones for a semester (but graduation from the University of Virginia should cancel that out) and I have read some Lewis books (but then again I read everything including Maryanne Robinson’s latest novel–with its baptismal regeneration agenda). Growing up fundamentalist meant being separated from “evangelicalism”. I was never taught anything but disrespect for the opportunism of Billy Graham, and I was never taught that water came before faith.

    But then on the other hand, I was taught that faith came before the new birth (which is what Billy Graham teaches). I did have to turn in my American citizenship, not only because the fundamentalists confused their nation-state with the cause of the gospel, but also because fundamentalists taught me that the Sermon on the Mount had nothing practical to say to this age and that the only way to survive was to vote against anybody who questioned the right of capitalists to wage war at any time for any reason. But fundamentalism did caution me to do bourgeois politics as a private individual in order to keep the appearance of a church/state distinction.

    Back then, the fundamentalists did not rejoice in the pulpit about the murder of Martin Luther King. They waited until they got to the parking lot and then publicly agreed that this is what needed to happen to anybody who questioned the war in Viet Nam.


  16. Lewis,

    Furtick could be in the running for the lead if they remake “An American Werewolf in London”. No makeup needed.

    You might be an evangelical if you think glamour shots for men are anywhere close to a good idea.


  17. Erik,

    I think Darryl should take some Furtick-esque glamour shots and post them in the “all About me” section of the blog.

    What say you Darryl??


  18. I would add to the list, somewhat facetiously, you know you are a modern evangelical if:

    1. Your first question in seeking a church is: what style of music do you have?

    2. The second question is: what do you offer the youth?

    3. You think the use of hymnbooks is too “catholic”

    4. You think Amy Grant’s “My Father’s Eyes” is traditional music

    5. You think church is only worth attending regularly if you are involved in a “ministry”

    6. You assume the worst of denominationalism while loving your pastor’s rant against tribalism and churches not getting along.

    7. You think sermons that explain doctrine are boring

    8. You must stand during all praise songs

    9. You don’t see anything creepy about taking your daughters on dates


  19. Someone dropped off $20 for Jason after reading his boo-hoo post about the hardships he’s suffered from being a Catholic.

    He just told Protestants to “suck it”.


  20. I’m going to give you the blow-by-blow, but let me preface this by saying that I generally prefer Jason to any 10 Callers with the exception of Casey Chalk. He’s way more interesting.


  21. Just referred to “jacking off and drinking whiskey”, closely followed by the use of the word “exacerbate”.

    I’m actually kind of liking the conversation, though. Co-host is not bad. Sounds like a high school classmate. Apparently was a pastor, now an agnostic.


  22. Jason complaining about traffic laws, stop signs, and people who use their traffic signals when no one is around.

    The guy is a noncomformist, which made him a good Reformed guy.

    Now he’s a Catholic where it’s all about bowing to The Man. Makes no sense whatsoever.


  23. Jason reference to someone “pissing himself” and 2nd put down of Calvinism — how Calvinists will cut each others’ throats over the 1% of things they don’t agree on.

    He needs to read Catholics debating Vatican II on his own blog.

    Christian’s first use of the “F” word. May need to change his given name.


  24. O.K. That could have been “Elian Gonzalez”. If Jason was making fun of illegal aliens he would be at odds with the Pope.

    This whole enterprise does make me wonder how serious he is about Catholicism at this point. Venial sins left and right.


  25. If I ever shake off the yoke of the Christian faith, I sincerely hope that the primary benefit I realize is not the ability to say f**k at will.

    I stopped thinking swearing was cool before I graduated high school.

    This is one of the things that makes atheism/agnosticism so lame for former Christians. The predictable path it takes.

    Sexual liberation, liberal politics, sudden interest in science, etc.


  26. If I ever quit going to church that would be the only thing that changed. Everything else I do makes sense because it makes sense, not because any church tells me it makes sense.


  27. The sex-ed discussion bogs down. Jason seems fixated on the notion of 12-14 year olds having sex. Neither guy is old enough to have been through it with their kids. Probably not the best topic. Discussing the ethics of porn might have been more interesting.


  28. Erik, thanks for listening to the whole thing at least, and for making me laugh a few times.

    Everyone is predictable. Do you think that Reformed people (or Evangelicals or Catholics or Atheists) are any less predictable than Agnostics? I’d probably argue that they’re more predictable.

    As far as “swearing” goes, I’ve been out of Christianity for some time now, but it never ceases to amaze me how fixated Christians are on certain words. Even I believe that it is the intent of the heart that matters. I don’t care what words my kids use. I care what their intention is.

    Lastly, my two sons are graduating high school this year. I’m not sure how old my kids have to be before I’m “old enough to have been through it with [my] kids.” I’m not saying there’s not more to go through, but I’ve certainly been through the bulk of it by this point since they’re both nearly “adults.”


  29. Christian,

    The drunk premise may not work. If you guys really were drinking as much as you said, you became less interesting as the show went on. When we’re drunk we might amuse ourselves more, but we generally don’t amuse anyone who is sober, which most listeners will be.

    Swearing just sounds unintelligent, whether it’s from a former Christian or a Hollywood mogul. I remember working with an attorney who swore a lot. He thought it made him sound tough. It just made him sound like a moron.

    And tell Jason to do some Hail Mary’s for the two f**k’s he says at the end.

    Was your divorce before, during, or after you lost your faith?


  30. “Drunk Ex-Pastors” just sounds funny, at least to me. I understand how drunkenness works. 🙂

    I don’t completely disagree about swearing, but I believe there’s proper context. If you’re swearing because you’re low on other adjectives, you might want to pick up a dictionary. However, I believe there’s sometimes a point to be made by “swearing.”

    I will give Jason some penance to do.

    If you’re ever in Seattle, message me. We can grab a drink and I’ll tell you all about my marriage and divorce if you’re really interested.


  31. Hmmm. Swearing is like any tool in the box, it serves a purpose. Then there is NorEastern dialect in which f**k/ing is the go to adjective for just about anything. I do have to say I enjoy listening to Bill Burr, most of the time.


  32. Christian,

    I respect your privacy on that. I was just wondering what part that played in your story. Maybe you get into that in some of the other podcasts.

    I see #7-10 on the site. How do you get #1-6?


  33. John, I understand. But I’m still trying to fathom why evangelicalism has such a hold on people who study religion. It is more imprecise than “conservative”.


  34. But, Christian, predictability is a P&R virtue. It’s evangelicals who eschew it even as they ironically practice it (psst, non-denominational is denominational and no creed but Christ is a creed).


  35. Evangelicals love the world.

    John 12: 25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

    John 17: 11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me

    I John 2 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life is not from the Father but is from the world.17 And the world is PASSING AWAY along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

    “The scandal of evangelical acculturation…” Robert H Gundry, Jesus the Word According to John the Sectarian, Eerdmans, 2002, p 89


  36. Slow news day so I’ll riff a little on episode 9 of “Two Drunk Pastors”.

    Jason is saying that the succession struggle at Calvary Chapel following the death of Chuck Smith is emblematic of what’s wrong with Protestantism — that there is no “principled way” of knowing who’s in charge.

    Editorial comment: This being the case, it’s amusing to watch Jason try to give biblical defenses of Catholic doctrines from time-to-time. Why bother? If the Pope is in charge, he’s in charge. What does it matter if his teaching is in accord with Scripture or not.

    Either the legitimate successors of the Apostles are boss or Scripture is boss. To try to have it both ways is problematic.


  37. When Jason and Christian were kicked out of Calvary Chapel it appears it was because the leaders (at least some of the leaders) believed they had been “led astray by intellectualism”. For Jason this presumably means Reformed theology. Not sure what it meant for Christian.


  38. Great work, Erik.

    Sure beats getting carpel tunnel on my thumb scrolling past people who think they can outthink DGH.


  39. Jason on disputes within Catholicism: They’re not a big deal because we have someone who is clearly in charge.

    Kent – You’re welcome. One of the many public services I provide. Unlike Public Radio I don’t even fundraise.


  40. Erik said:

    Jason is saying that the succession struggle at Calvary Chapel following the death of Chuck Smith is emblematic of what’s wrong with Protestantism — that there is no “principled way” of knowing who’s in charge.

    Funny how the Avignon Papacy doesn’t throw a wrench into that “principled way.”

    I’d like to know the principled way of knowing that Mother Teresa is a better Roman Catholic than Nancy Pelosi. I’d also like to know the principled way these people separate their opinion of Rome as the true church from the reality. For people who complain about us poor Protestants lacking “principled means,” their “principled means” is grounded on a decision they make for which such means (according to their standards) lacks.

    It’s enough to give one a headache.


  41. Jason on disputes within Catholicism: They’re not a big deal because we have someone who is clearly in charge.

    Except when the guy in charge can’t control his own butler.


  42. Recent reports indicate that Jason is selling cars.

    Prior to that it appears he was working as a package sorter at UPS. My dad was a UPS driver for 35 years and I can tell you it’s not a bad gig for an independent thinker. My dad had a rural route and he had lots of time to listen to books on tape. Maybe not a bad gig for Jason if he could get on as a full-time driver. An urban route would obviously have a different dynamic. Guys usually need to bide their time to get the better routes since they’re based on seniority (union shop).

    It is a physically tough job, though. You stay in shape, but there is wear & tear over time. May dad threw his back out a few times over the years and ultimately had to have some back surgery. Doing o.k. since retirement, though. He now has a 29 hour a week job driving disabled people from place to place.


  43. Robert,

    Indeed Catholics always have to resort to the idea that the way succession sorts itself out is the way that God intended.

    It sounds rather Calvinistic, although Jason doesn’t hesitate to display his disdain for Calvinism & Calvinists at this point in time.


  44. History is always viewed through the rearview mirror. I don’t understand how “principled means” helps you when the particular Pope that you are living under is later found to be unfaithful. There’s just a lot of blind trust going on. “I believe what The Church believes and hopefully in the end that’s enough to get me into heaven.”


  45. You could do much worse than UPS, but you have to be willing to put in the time to work up slowly.

    The pay starts out ratty, but in a heavy liberal state like WA I’m sure the union squeezes UPS for free healthcare.


  46. Erik,

    History is always viewed through the rearview mirror. I don’t understand how “principled means” helps you when the particular Pope that you are living under is later found to be unfaithful. There’s just a lot of blind trust going on. “I believe what The Church believes and hopefully in the end that’s enough to get me into heaven.”

    Bingo. I’ve raised this exact objection to RCs, and they just kind of shrug it off. Some try and resort to the charism of the laity who’ll make sure what the bad popes promulgate never takes root. Sounds kinda Protestant to me.

    There’s kind of a “God will work it out in the end” mentality that is incipient to both systems. Why the Callers think you need an infallible church for this to be true, however, continues to escape me. It almost seems at times as if they just can’t handle being in charge of their own spiritual lives and would prefer to hand it off to others. I guess there’s a hope that they can always blame the church on the last day if they have to.


  47. Jason makes a statement that he wouldn’t have traded his experience overseas with Calvary Chapel for any technical training that he might have received at that age instead (“web page developers are a dime a dozen”).

    This is at odds with his recent post about his conversion to Catholicism being a cause of financial hardship in his life. His getting out of the ministry may be a cause of hardship in his life (because his only training is as a minister), but to act as if he is receiving persecution for becoming a Catholic, this causing financial hardship, is not accurate.

    Consider if, instead of becoming a Catholic, he had become an atheist. The same financial results would have come about, thus demonstrating that Catholicism per se has little to do with it.

    It’s also interesting to note that Christian, who is now a programmer and makes enough to take a week long vacation in Hawaii, also got out of the ministry (and has rebounded financially). He got out longer ago, however.


  48. Jason tries to win Christian back to Christianity by touting the beliefs of a Chicago area priest who touts “hopeful universalism” – the belief that, while hell exists, no one will eventually end up there.

    Sounds like Tom Van Dyke’s hope.


  49. On to Episode 8.

    Jason asks where the 2nd & 3rd movies are in Stieg Larsson’s “Millennium Trilogy”. They’re out there, in Swedish, starring Noomi Rapace instead of Rooney Mara.


  50. A beef I have with Jason is, save for a Karate Kid reference (which I appreciated), he appears to have a really limited frame of reference on film chronologically. Now I agree there’s a barrier when you go back to the black & white, Studio code era (pre-1967). He needs to get up to speed with the Cinema of the late 60s through the 70s, though, if he’s going to have a blog called “Heavy for the Vintage”. Since you’re 41, Christian, you have even less of an excuse if you haven’t gone back. I’m 44 and it’s been a major project of the last 10 years of my life. Foreign film is another area to get familiar with, especially from the French New Wave forward.


  51. Jason & Christian discuss the appropriateness of ever saying the N word.

    Mark Twain’s “Huckleberry Finn” is one battleground for the debate.

    Another, which they don’t mention, is the debate between Spike Lee & Quentin Tarantino over Tarantino’s “Jackie Brown”.


  52. They do mention “Django Unchained” and “Pulp Fiction”. Well done.

    Tarantino thinks he can get away with it because he’s a champion of the Blaxploitation genre. And black actors (Samuel L. Jackson, Jamie Foxx, Pam Grier).


  53. Jason thinks he should get a “little bit of leeway” if he uses words like “gay” or “retarded” because he’s known as a friend of the disenfranchised, the victimized, and the marginalized. He says he’s the farthest thing from a racist or a homophobe.


  54. Christian’s name for Marc Driscoll: Evange-douche Marc Driscoll.

    Someone calls in in episode 7 (a plant, most likely) asking about Driscoll talking about how a man’s penis needs to find a home.

    Christian & Jason have both been to Mars Hill and saw the documentary about former Calvary Chapel alum Lonnie Frisbee there.


  55. Jason gets on Driscoll for being a part of the “Acts 29 Network”. Acts only has 28 books so the presumption is that they are continuing the Book of Acts.

    Jason says this is like Mormons continuing the Biblical narrative.

    Does Jason realize that his church claims to have the only legitimate successors to the Apostles?


    Their claims are o.k. because they’re true (so Jason would defend himself).


  56. This logical oversight I noted two posts above is huge — huge — for Jason and the ultimate outcome of his journey.

    He needs to consider the alternative that the apostles were the apostles and have no earthly successors — whether they be Marc Driscoll, Joseph Smith, or Pope Francis.

    Maybe we do just have a Book.


  57. Pretty good insights on Driscoll, but Jason says, “This is what happens when too much power is concentrated in one, unaccountable man.”

    Ever heard of the Pope?


  58. We have asked people who ask us to talk about something to leave it in a voice message, but that’s the closest we come to a “plant.” Don’t ask me why people want to ask us anything…


  59. In Episode 5 Jason says that he thinks it’s really sexy when women do tequila shots. This one goes out to him:

    Of course the classic woman doing tequila shots was Lacy Underalls in “Caddyshack”.


  60. Jason: The good thing about the Catholic Church is that they have a definite position on things whereas there is no one Protestant position on things.

    Christian: What’s the Catholic position on hell?

    Jason: Um, I have to look it up.

    Christian: (laughter)


  61. Jason peddling conspiracy theories that we were planning to attack Japan in WWII and Japan was merely launching a pre-emptive strike on Pearl Harbor.

    He needs to put down the Howard Zinn.


  62. In Episode 4 Jason used the word “bone” as a verb. There should be some kind of criminal penalty for that word usage by any Seminary graduate. I volunteer to receive the fine.


  63. Darryl,

    Referring to the Vatican document: While the text did not signal any change in the Church’s condemnation of homosexual acts or its opposition to gay marriage, it used language that was less judgmental and more compassionate than past Vatican statements under previous popes.

    Kinda like “separated brethren” but still anathematized protestants…


  64. Discussing the Michael Brown/Ferguson situation in episode 3. Jason notes that white people are desperate to find things in Brown’s background that will justify his shooting, then when we do we “cream our jeans”.

    An image I can live without.


  65. Jason says that he may not be holy enough to be a Protestant. If you commit the same sin over and over again you may be “practicing sin” and then you may not be a Christian, nor have you ever been one.

    This is Reformed theology?


  66. Christian – The whole thing (God’s plan of salvation) is just really poorly designed.

    Jason – You should become a Mormon so that you can get your own planet and be your own god.



  67. Jason channeling Curt Day in discussing Ferguson in episode 2.

    Both he & Christian highly recommend the National Geographic Channel series on “The 90s”, which appears to be on You Tube.

    Jason just made another Chomsky reference.


  68. Now he’s on to health care. Not a fan of Obamacare because it perpetuates the current system. He’s a proponent of single payer.

    Can you imagine what might have happened if he had set foot in Moscow during the Leithart trial?


  69. Christian: I’m going to Texas tomorrow. Do they want to secede?

    Jason: Probably, they’re horrible.

    I knew that Kenneth offering him a job down there would go nowhere.


  70. Jason related that he became interested in Christianity in 1989 and began by reading two books by Chuck Smith on the End Times.

    Jason & Christian go on to an interesting discussion on how ridiculous they now consider all of the things they used to believe on the subject to be.

    When do we get the discussion on transubstantiation and all of the alleged Roman Catholic miracles, signs and wonders, relics, and holy sites?


  71. When reality hits Jason he will probably melt like Jim Bakker did in court when initially sentenced to 45 years in federal prison


  72. I’m obviously hitting the low points here, but as previously mentioned, I like the show. These guys are pretty talented for this type of thing.

    But then no one has ever questioned Jason’s talents. If he wasn’t talented we wouldn’t miss him so much.


  73. What they remind me of for some reason is a podcast that Craig Gross & Mike Foster used to do together. They were in a documentary called “Missionary Positions” about the ministry that they had to the porn industry. Foster eventually got out and you got the impression that he was glad to be out — that he was way too normal for that type of ministry. Gross had another helper for awhile but he went off the rails. Now it seems that most of his helpers are female, which is probably how it should be.


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