Missing Logic

A couple of items that all apologists might want to chew over, especially the homers we know as Jason and the Callers.

First, notice the absence of logic in Russ Saltzman’s tu quoque-like decision to become a Roman Catholic:

While certainly Neuhaus was – crap, still is – a tremendous influence on me, Dianne’s announcement set me to examining my Lutheran life, and in some ways it’s not as Lutheran as it once was. I write regularly for a Catholic magazine. Everybody senior on the staff at First Things is Catholic. I know as many priests as I do pastors, people I hang out with on email and the like, and I point out not a few of those priests were once Lutheran pastors. Not to slight you or anyone you know, it has just happened in my life that my intellectual and best theological compatriots these days are largely Roman Catholic.

What I have always sought – since seminary on – is to be in a church that finally gives expression to the catholicity of the Augsburg Confession. There is no Lutheran expression doing that. Most of my 17 years as editor of Forum Letter was spent, so it seems, showing Lutherans how far we have fallen from the practice of parish life described in our own confession.

There are evangelically catholic centers of Lutheran congregational life, and some that are deeply so, And there are evangelically catholic-minded pastors seeking parish renewal by Creed, Catechism, Confession, and praise God for it. The Church must continually struggle “against forces that always strike the Church and gospel: the fashions and fads of Gnosticisms ancient and new . . . the devaluation of the sacraments through neglect, the socially accommodating spirit of Church Growth excitements, and the gross appetite of a politicized bureaucracy.” (Forum Letter 19:9, September 1990). It may be, I’ll find out, the best field for the contestation in that struggle is with Rome.

5) By the time I reasoned all that out, Step 5 was, like, why the hell not?

Yet, this is not for ease nor is it out of mere unhappiness with the state of Lutheranism. It rises from true conviction that has grown in strength since Richard’s death, that the essence – more like fullness – of the Church of Christ is in found communion with churches in communion with the bishop of Rome. It is not safe to deny one’s conscience or renege on conviction.

Notice especially the lack of urgency as in what must I be do to be saved? You can be saved in the ELCA or the RCC. But in which do you receive a fuller bang for your assent? (If all my friends are Detroit Tigers’ fans, do I abandon the Phillies? These days, hell yes of course.)

And then comes word of the importance of the imagination, as opposed to logic, in the appeal of Roman Catholicism:

The literary shortcomings of Catholics in this era, he suggests, were due to an often combative and excessively didactic posture, which obscured human and artistic engagement with religious questions. “Religious function,” Ryan suggests, following Marcel Gauchet’s analysis in The Disenchantment of the World, needed to leave behind its role as a heavy-handed instrument of conversion and be “metabolized,” or drawn into an “aesthetic repertoire” infused with “Catholic ways of knowing and habits of being,” before Catholic authors could have a serious impact on American literature.

Orestes Brownson and Fr. Isaac Hecker, for example, both saw the potential of Catholic literature as a tool for combating anti-Catholic prejudice and educating the rapidly growing population of American Catholics. They imagined enormous possibilities for evangelization in the burgeoning printing industry, calling for a Catholic literature that would provide an education in the doctrines of Catholicism while instilling moral values, hoping to counter the influence of the wildly popular sentimental novels and scurrilous romances of the era.

While neither Brownson nor Hecker was successful in reaching a large audience, the novels of Jedidiah Huntington and Anna Hanson Dorsey, and the devotional writings of Cardinal James Gibbons, did become somewhat popular, even on par with the sentimental-didactic fiction of their Protestant contemporaries. Ryan points out that all three of these authors can attribute their relative success in part to their willingness to integrate into their fiction the literary themes and conventions to which readers of such fiction were accustomed.

So maybe the website should be called, “Imagine Communion.”

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40 thoughts on “Missing Logic

  1. but being “Reformed”, is that really a matter of life and death?

    don’t you know that many Arminians are way more obedient than you are, even though they know nothing about the indicative of God having already imputed the sins of the elect to Christ?

    don’t answer that

    Spurs losing in three overtimes was not life and death—but it sure beats watching the Sixers

    Sean, I hope Duncan is somewhere working on his free throws

    Like

  2. It rises from true conviction that has grown in strength since Richard’s death, that the essence – more like fullness – of the Church of Christ is in found communion with churches in communion with the bishop of Rome. It is not safe to deny one’s conscience or renege on conviction.

    These are the times your blog is worth reading, Darryl. Your most ornery efforts to mock and shout these people down become their best advertisement.

    Notice especially the lack of urgency as in what must I be do to be saved?

    According to Calvinism, there’s nothing you can do. Didn’t anybody here read your book?

    Like

  3. There is, in fact, just such a church that “gives…catholicity to the Augsburg Confession…” – the ELS, or Evangelical Lutheran Synod. In fact, if you attend one of their worship services and open up one of their hymnals you’ll find the AC right up there in the front of it, before any liturgy or hymns.

    And, as for Neuhaus, I’d like to think that he is not an influence on anyone and hopefully never was. While still in seminary, none other than Richard Preus himself tried to convince Neuhaus of justification sola fide, but he couldn’t seem to get his arms around it. So, apparently disillusioned, he fled to the ELCA where none of his beliefs about anything mattered very much. And finally to Rome where he was probably welcomed with about the same warmth as the CTC’ers, but was happily used as a stooge to orchestrate his opus magnum, ECT 1&2.

    So I say, “so what?”

    Like

  4. TVD: “According to Calvinism, there’s nothing you can do.”

    According to…Calvin…there is something we can do: “yield up ourselves” to that Great Being to which we owe everything. So nicely does our ancient lawyer friend frame the argument every person needs to weigh, for their personal eternal state :

    “For this sense of the divine perfections is the proper master to teach us piety, out of which religion springs. By piety I mean that union of reverence and love to God which the knowledge of his benefits inspires. ”

    “For, until men feel that they owe everything to God, that they are cherished by his paternal care, and that he is the author of all their blessings, so that nought is to be looked for away from him, they will never submit to him in voluntary obedience; nay, unless they place their entire happiness in him, they will never yield up their whole selves to him in truth and sincerity.”

    Calvin’s Institutes, Ch. 2.

    Like

  5. Everyone must follow there own path, but RS’s letter was about as casual and unconvincing an account as I have read. I feel a very constant tug back to my Protestant upbringing…. does that make it the right thing? good grief.

    Like

  6. mcMark, I find more comfort — think Heidelberg 1 — from the Reformed understanding of the gospel than any other.

    It’s Sisters, not Sixers. (sorry ladies and vd, t)

    Like

  7. which is closer, the papist understanding of the gospel or the Wesleyan perspective on the gospel?

    I agree with Toplady–since there is only one gospel, other “frames” are not the gospel

    if what Christ did for those Christ came to save is not enough to actually save them, there is no good news

    so for our comfort, let’s say the great High Priest sat down after having “by Himself” taken away all the sins He bore

    Like

  8. Mark, all we need to do is assign a baseball team for every Xtian denom in order to answer your question. At least it gets as the fact that the Yankees are of course the worst (take that NY).

    Like

  9. JASitek,

    Mebbe. I’m open to revision. But we in the OPC believe despite our meager means, we are capable of more than those who boast of much simply because of their higher doubloon count:

    Over five days, we heard eleven such addresses. We heard of how some denominations are growing, sending out missionaries, publishing solid Reformed materials, training pastors, etc. We heard of those that are engaged in the work of reformation, laboring to make their bodies more self-consciously Reformed. Many spoke warmly of how they have benefited from the labors of the OPC. J. Ligon Duncan, chancellor of Reformed Theological Seminary and the fraternal delegate from the PCA, said of the relatively small OPC that she is seen as a church that “punches above its weight.”

    We aren’t the Pirates, are we? Arrgh

    Like

  10. Not to sound all bitter or anything, but are we really surprised when people like Saltzman leave? Saltzman was a member of the ELCA, and then the NALC – neither of which are confessional Lutheran bodies. Too much baggage for him to join the LCMS, ELS, or WELS, I suppose. Sour grapes, much?

    Roman Catholics and EOs love to throw Neuhaus and Pelikan in Lutherans’ faces, but they miss the rather inconvenient and unsettling truth about these leavings – the political nature of the conversions. Both Pelikan and Neuhaus found themselves marginalized by their inter-synod politicking. If they had steered clear of that rubbish, I’ll bet they wouldn’t have felt obligated to jump ship after they made enemies. As any Lutheran theologian should know: don’t mix theology with politics.

    I have respect for Neuhaus and his writings, but the hagiography that surrounds him (especially at First Things) is just plain dishonest.

    Saltzman writes: “What I have always sought – since seminary on – is to be in a church that finally gives expression to the catholicity of the Augsburg Confession.”

    Saltzman is a fool if he thinks that he can subscribe to both the teachings of Rome and the Augsburg Confession, but why not let him? This piece reeks of lazy scholarship and mid-life crises.

    I wonder if Jason and the Callers agree that Saltzman can now be in communion with them and still subscribe to the catholicity of the Augsburg Confession.

    Like

  11. “Saltzman is a fool if he thinks that he can subscribe to both the teachings of Rome and the Augsburg Confession, but why not let him? This piece reeks of lazy scholarship and mid-life crises. ”

    Yup, it sort of saddens me for a second, if I can spare it, and a quiet hope he seriously reflects on things.

    And then I move on.

    And many of us have messed up horribly at some point on the journey.

    Like

  12. Saltzman says in his statement he’s looking into Roman Catholic orders. Perhaps he’s hoping to get a book deal? ‘Cuz, as Jason knows, once you convert you’d better have something lined up. Otherwise your ministry might be narrowed to preaching the gospel of St. 2003 Ford Focus (Novena at NO MONEY DOWN).

    On second thought, Longenecker & Saltzman is a pretty catchy title for a blog. That, or a knock-out Broadway musical writing team.

    Like

  13. Sorry, that should be Saltzman & Longenecker.

    Their first project is a Roman Catholic adaption of Sondheim’s classic song from Company: “Sorry-Grateful” .

    Like

  14. Hey all,
    Glad to see all you guys still working it. Somebody bumped my page so I thought I would see what you guys were up to. Hope you all have a Merry Christmas. May God abundantly bless the new year to come for you all.

    Like

  15. JAS, Shouldn’t third place — like the old W C Fields’ joke about Philadelphia — be attendance at TGC conference, with first place being a week in any city not hosting the conference?

    Like

  16. AB
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 8:39 am | Permalink
    As long as we don’t end up as TVD’s Dodgers, I’ll remain calm.

    Very bad guess. My team’s far far worse.

    Like

  17. If all my friends are Detroit Tigers’ fans, do I abandon the Phillies? These days, hell yes of course.

    I concur, but with two scruples. I will never root for the Yankees, nor Dodgers, despite the power of peer pressure. Bring it on.

    Which also got me thinking, shouldn’t Catholicism be the American League, and Protestantism the National League? I mean, what’s up with the popeDH these days, anyway? Yo?

    Like

  18. Seth, you buried your lead:

    My first personal encounter with the Blessed Virgin Mary happened while I was a student at an Evangelical Anglican seminary in England. I had been brought up as an Evangelical and found my way into the Anglican church. There I was preparing for ordination. A Catholic friend who was a Benedictine oblate suggested that I might like to visit a Catholic Benedictine monastery.

    While there I told one of the monks that during a time of contemplative prayer I had sensed God’s presence in a very real, but feminine way. The femininity disturbed me because I knew God isn’t feminine.

    Is Fr. Longenecker talking pheromones? Or simply estrogen?

    Like

  19. Missing Logic
    By D. G. HART | Published: DECEMBER 18, 2014
    A couple of items that all apologists might want to chew over, especially the homers we know as Jason and the Callers.

    First, notice the absence of logic in Russ Saltzman’s tu quoque-like decision to become a Roman Catholic:

    While certainly Neuhaus was – crap, still is – a tremendous influence on me, Dianne’s announcement set me to examining my Lutheran life, and in some ways it’s not as Lutheran as it once was. I write regularly for a Catholic magazine. Everybody senior on the staff at First Things is Catholic. I know as many priests as I do pastors, people I hang out with on email and the like, and I point out not a few of those priests were once Lutheran pastors. Not to slight you or anyone you know, it has just happened in my life that my intellectual and best theological compatriots these days are largely Roman Catholic.

    What I have always sought – since seminary on – is to be in a church that finally gives expression to the catholicity of the Augsburg Confession. There is no Lutheran expression doing that. Most of my 17 years as editor of Forum Letter was spent, so it seems, showing Lutherans how far we have fallen from the practice of parish life described in our own confession.

    There are evangelically catholic centers of Lutheran congregational life, and some that are deeply so, And there are evangelically catholic-minded pastors seeking parish renewal by Creed, Catechism, Confession, and praise God for it. The Church must continually struggle “against forces that always strike the Church and gospel: the fashions and fads of Gnosticisms ancient and new . . . the devaluation of the sacraments through neglect, the socially accommodating spirit of Church Growth excitements, and the gross appetite of a politicized bureaucracy.” (Forum Letter 19:9, September 1990). It may be, I’ll find out, the best field for the contestation in that struggle is with Rome.

    5) By the time I reasoned all that out, Step 5 was, like, why the hell not?

    Yet, this is not for ease nor is it out of mere unhappiness with the state of Lutheranism. It rises from true conviction that has grown in strength since Richard’s death, that the essence – more like fullness – of the Church of Christ is in found communion with churches in communion with the bishop of Rome. It is not safe to deny one’s conscience or renege on conviction.

    Notice especially the lack of urgency as in what must I be do to be saved? You can be saved in the ELCA or the RCC. But in which do you receive a fuller bang for your assent? (If all my friends are Detroit Tigers’ fans, do I abandon the Phillies? These days, hell yes of course.)

    And then comes word of the importance of the imagination, as opposed to logic, in the appeal of Roman Catholicism:

    The literary shortcomings of Catholics in this era, he suggests, were due to an often combative and excessively didactic posture, which obscured human and artistic engagement with religious questions. “Religious function,” Ryan suggests, following Marcel Gauchet’s analysis in The Disenchantment of the World, needed to leave behind its role as a heavy-handed instrument of conversion and be “metabolized,” or drawn into an “aesthetic repertoire” infused with “Catholic ways of knowing and habits of being,” before Catholic authors could have a serious impact on American literature.

    Orestes Brownson and Fr. Isaac Hecker, for example, both saw the potential of Catholic literature as a tool for combating anti-Catholic prejudice and educating the rapidly growing population of American Catholics. They imagined enormous possibilities for evangelization in the burgeoning printing industry, calling for a Catholic literature that would provide an education in the doctrines of Catholicism while instilling moral values, hoping to counter the influence of the wildly popular sentimental novels and scurrilous romances of the era.

    While neither Brownson nor Hecker was successful in reaching a large audience, the novels of Jedidiah Huntington and Anna Hanson Dorsey, and the devotional writings of Cardinal James Gibbons, did become somewhat popular, even on par with the sentimental-didactic fiction of their Protestant contemporaries. Ryan points out that all three of these authors can attribute their relative success in part to their willingness to integrate into their fiction the literary themes and conventions to which readers of such fiction were accustomed.

    So maybe the website should be called, “Imagine Communion.”

    Share/Bookmark
    This entry was posted in Are the CTCers Paying Attention?, Roman Catholicism and tagged apologeitcs, literature, logic, Russ Saltzman. Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.
    « If It Could Happen to Jerusalem . . .
    33 Comments
    Mark Mcculley
    Posted December 18, 2014 at 5:36 pm | Permalink
    but being “Reformed”, is that really a matter of life and death?

    don’t you know that many Arminians are way more obedient than you are, even though they know nothing about the indicative of God having already imputed the sins of the elect to Christ?

    don’t answer that

    Spurs losing in three overtimes was not life and death—but it sure beats watching the Sixers

    Sean, I hope Duncan is somewhere working on his free throws

    TVD
    Posted December 18, 2014 at 6:47 pm | Permalink
    It rises from true conviction that has grown in strength since Richard’s death, that the essence – more like fullness – of the Church of Christ is in found communion with churches in communion with the bishop of Rome. It is not safe to deny one’s conscience or renege on conviction.

    These are the times your blog is worth reading, Darryl. Your most ornery efforts to mock and shout these people down become their best advertisement.

    Notice especially the lack of urgency as in what must I be do to be saved?

    According to Calvinism, there’s nothing you can do. Didn’t anybody here read your book?

    sean
    Posted December 18, 2014 at 6:53 pm | Permalink
    McMark, way way too soon

    George
    Posted December 18, 2014 at 6:57 pm | Permalink
    There is, in fact, just such a church that “gives…catholicity to the Augsburg Confession…” – the ELS, or Evangelical Lutheran Synod. In fact, if you attend one of their worship services and open up one of their hymnals you’ll find the AC right up there in the front of it, before any liturgy or hymns.

    And, as for Neuhaus, I’d like to think that he is not an influence on anyone and hopefully never was. While still in seminary, none other than Richard Preus himself tried to convince Neuhaus of justification sola fide, but he couldn’t seem to get his arms around it. So, apparently disillusioned, he fled to the ELCA where none of his beliefs about anything mattered very much. And finally to Rome where he was probably welcomed with about the same warmth as the CTC’ers, but was happily used as a stooge to orchestrate his opus magnum, ECT 1&2.

    So I say, “so what?”

    Russell
    Posted December 18, 2014 at 7:59 pm | Permalink
    TVD: “According to Calvinism, there’s nothing you can do.”

    According to…Calvin…there is something we can do: “yield up ourselves” to that Great Being to which we owe everything. So nicely does our ancient lawyer friend frame the argument every person needs to weigh, for their personal eternal state :

    “For this sense of the divine perfections is the proper master to teach us piety, out of which religion springs. By piety I mean that union of reverence and love to God which the knowledge of his benefits inspires. ”

    “For, until men feel that they owe everything to God, that they are cherished by his paternal care, and that he is the author of all their blessings, so that nought is to be looked for away from him, they will never submit to him in voluntary obedience; nay, unless they place their entire happiness in him, they will never yield up their whole selves to him in truth and sincerity.”

    Calvin’s Institutes, Ch. 2.

    AB
    Posted December 18, 2014 at 8:50 pm | Permalink
    Great quote Russell.

    Post brought back conciliarism to me
    https://oldlife.org/2013/09/debt-roman-catholicism/

    It was a great (world)(blog) series.

    Yo.

    AB
    Posted December 18, 2014 at 9:10 pm | Permalink
    Re: conciliarism

    Meant to go onthis thread.

    Joe M
    Posted December 18, 2014 at 9:26 pm | Permalink
    Everyone must follow there own path, but RS’s letter was about as casual and unconvincing an account as I have read. I feel a very constant tug back to my Protestant upbringing…. does that make it the right thing? good grief.

    D. G. Hart
    Posted December 18, 2014 at 9:45 pm | Permalink
    mcMark, I find more comfort — think Heidelberg 1 — from the Reformed understanding of the gospel than any other.

    It’s Sisters, not Sixers. (sorry ladies and vd, t)

    Mark Mcculley
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 1:49 am | Permalink
    which is closer, the papist understanding of the gospel or the Wesleyan perspective on the gospel?

    I agree with Toplady–since there is only one gospel, other “frames” are not the gospel

    if what Christ did for those Christ came to save is not enough to actually save them, there is no good news

    so for our comfort, let’s say the great High Priest sat down after having “by Himself” taken away all the sins He bore

    AB
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 8:11 am | Permalink
    Mark, all we need to do is assign a baseball team for every Xtian denom in order to answer your question. At least it gets as the fact that the Yankees are of course the worst (take that NY).

    AB
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 8:18 am | Permalink
    And my vote is for the Oakland A’s = OPC, Darryl makes a great Billy Beane.

    JASitek
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 8:20 am | Permalink
    Miggy as the lead image!

    Might have to submit a screencap of the Tigers at OL to TGC: https://twitter.com/ChortlesWeakly/status/545923465359159297

    JASitek
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 8:21 am | Permalink
    AB,

    That would make the OPC a bunch of hipsters.

    AB
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 8:28 am | Permalink
    JASitek,

    Mebbe. I’m open to revision. But we in the OPC believe despite our meager means, we are capable of more than those who boast of much simply because of their higher doubloon count:

    Over five days, we heard eleven such addresses. We heard of how some denominations are growing, sending out missionaries, publishing solid Reformed materials, training pastors, etc. We heard of those that are engaged in the work of reformation, laboring to make their bodies more self-consciously Reformed. Many spoke warmly of how they have benefited from the labors of the OPC. J. Ligon Duncan, chancellor of Reformed Theological Seminary and the fraternal delegate from the PCA, said of the relatively small OPC that she is seen as a church that “punches above its weight.”

    We aren’t the Pirates, are we? Arrgh

    AB
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 8:39 am | Permalink
    As long as we don’t end up as TVD’s Dodgers, I’ll remain calm.

    JASitek
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 8:40 am | Permalink
    I’d be a pirate any day. Renegades, ya know?

    I don’t see that many skinny jeans at OPC-GA like at the Oakland Coliseum.

    AB
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 8:53 am | Permalink
    Pirates they be then, matey. They do look like they would make scurvy dogs like us walk the plank, yarghh..

    JASitek
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 9:10 am | Permalink
    A(ye)B,

    May your sails and your beards always be whitening.

    Seth
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 9:49 am | Permalink
    Not to sound all bitter or anything, but are we really surprised when people like Saltzman leave? Saltzman was a member of the ELCA, and then the NALC – neither of which are confessional Lutheran bodies. Too much baggage for him to join the LCMS, ELS, or WELS, I suppose. Sour grapes, much?

    Roman Catholics and EOs love to throw Neuhaus and Pelikan in Lutherans’ faces, but they miss the rather inconvenient and unsettling truth about these leavings – the political nature of the conversions. Both Pelikan and Neuhaus found themselves marginalized by their inter-synod politicking. If they had steered clear of that rubbish, I’ll bet they wouldn’t have felt obligated to jump ship after they made enemies. As any Lutheran theologian should know: don’t mix theology with politics.

    I have respect for Neuhaus and his writings, but the hagiography that surrounds him (especially at First Things) is just plain dishonest.

    Saltzman writes: “What I have always sought – since seminary on – is to be in a church that finally gives expression to the catholicity of the Augsburg Confession.”

    Saltzman is a fool if he thinks that he can subscribe to both the teachings of Rome and the Augsburg Confession, but why not let him? This piece reeks of lazy scholarship and mid-life crises.

    I wonder if Jason and the Callers agree that Saltzman can now be in communion with them and still subscribe to the catholicity of the Augsburg Confession.

    kent
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 9:54 am | Permalink
    “Saltzman is a fool if he thinks that he can subscribe to both the teachings of Rome and the Augsburg Confession, but why not let him? This piece reeks of lazy scholarship and mid-life crises. ”

    Yup, it sort of saddens me for a second, if I can spare it, and a quiet hope he seriously reflects on things.

    And then I move on.

    And many of us have messed up horribly at some point on the journey.

    Seth
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 10:36 am | Permalink
    Saltzman says in his statement he’s looking into Roman Catholic orders. Perhaps he’s hoping to get a book deal? ‘Cuz, as Jason knows, once you convert you’d better have something lined up. Otherwise your ministry might be narrowed to preaching the gospel of St. 2003 Ford Focus (Novena at NO MONEY DOWN).

    On second thought, Longenecker & Saltzman is a pretty catchy title for a blog. That, or a knock-out Broadway musical writing team.

    Seth
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 10:41 am | Permalink
    Sorry, that should be Saltzman & Longenecker.

    Their first project is a Roman Catholic adaption of Sondheim’s classic song from Company: “Sorry-Grateful” .

    MichaelTX
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 10:52 am | Permalink
    Hey all,
    Glad to see all you guys still working it. Somebody bumped my page so I thought I would see what you guys were up to. Hope you all have a Merry Christmas. May God abundantly bless the new year to come for you all.

    D. G. Hart
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 11:22 am | Permalink
    JAS, Shouldn’t third place — like the old W C Fields’ joke about Philadelphia — be attendance at TGC conference, with first place being a week in any city not hosting the conference?

    D. G. Hart
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 11:27 am | Permalink
    Seth, does Augsburg teach apostolic succession? I don’t think so.

    JASitek
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink
    DGH,

    Ah yes, the War Games scenario.

    AB
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 12:01 pm | Permalink
    MTX, nice to hear from you. Peace.

    TVD
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 12:01 pm | Permalink
    AB
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 8:39 am | Permalink
    As long as we don’t end up as TVD’s Dodgers, I’ll remain calm.

    Very bad guess. My team’s far far worse.

    AB
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 12:04 pm | Permalink
    TVD, not a Dodger fan? Yes!

    Unlike some people [apparently], I wouldn’t abandon my Phillies and start cheering for the Dodgers. Or say, Tigers.

    And FTR, I’d say Protestantism is the Junior Circuit, and the one that made up new rules like the DH.

    Like

  20. AB
    Posted December 19, 2014 at 12:04 pm | Permalink
    TVD, not a Dodger fan? Yes!

    Unlike some people [apparently], I wouldn’t abandon my Phillies and start cheering for the Dodgers. Or say, Tigers.

    And FTR, I’d say Protestantism is the Junior Circuit, and the one that made up new rules like the DH.

    Like

  21. We’re out of our league, Tom. The resident atheist is the one doing all the mopping up around this blog, lately, if you haven’t noticed. What’s the Church Discipline man’s opinion of the DH, that’s what (all about) I want to know.

    But do you see how unity can work, protestant style? Down with the designated hitter, somethings are too important not to stand shoulder to shoulder on.

    Lates.

    Like

  22. Joe M – Everyone must follow there own path, but RS’s letter was about as casual and unconvincing an account as I have read. I feel a very constant tug back to my Protestant upbringing…. does that make it the right thing? good grief.

    Erik – Indeed. It reads like some kind of slacker/stoner conversion.

    “Like, dude, I was like, ‘what the heck – might as well be Catholic, ya know? Yo. So I like, did it.”

    And what kind of sissy follows his wife in deciding to convert?

    I know the Callers aren’t exactly manly men, but come on, have some self-respect.

    Like

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