Reality Wins

Is it merely coincidental that the day that Nancy Pelosi tries to gain the upper Roman Catholic hand on Marco Rubio is also the day that Jason Stellman (of Bryan and the Jasons) announces he is throwing in the towel?

Here‘s Nancy on the Roman Catholic mainstream:

I thoroughly disagree (with Rubio’s opposition to gay marriage), being raised in a Catholic family, raising a Catholic family, mainstream Catholic – well, the Baltimore catechism, to get back to our hometown of Baltimore, was what we were raised on. And I think that this statement by Senator Rubio is most unfortunate. It’s a polarizing statement. The fact is, is that what we’re taught was to respect people in our faith and to say that this endangers mainstream Christian thinking is so completely wrong.

Does Jason sound here like he understands he’s in the Roman Catholic fringe?

While my days as an official apologist for the faith are over, my faith is still very much alive (albeit expressed differently nowadays).

It’s been a wild ride, and I’d like to say I will miss blogging at Creed Code Cult, but my feelings are mixed. I took a lot of abuse here, but I also handed out my share of it. In many ways the interaction I have had in these pages reflects the very best and very worst of me. To those I have offended, been impatient with, or smug toward, please accept my sincere apology. Grace should be received with grace, and I have received freely, and so desire to freely give.

Postscript: when Jason writes, “When ideas eclipse people, and when being right obscures being loving, everyone loses. Love God and love your neighbor. This is the Law and the Prophets,” wouldn’t that have been a reason to remain Presbyterian?

Advertisements

58 thoughts on “Reality Wins

  1. Maybe Jason has discovered that the modernist/postmodernist Roman Church can’t be defended.

    A church that believes everything is rather pointless, no?

    Like

  2. Dr Cross, time to update the ol bio page.

    Note, drunk is spelled is one d, that’s d r u n k e x p a s t o r s.com

    Or his Steinbeck blog, but clearly, DXP is where he is now. If you don’t link to that new endeavor, we understand.

    I’ll give BC a jingle, he’s in my Rolodex.

    Like

  3. Erik, I wouldn’t have an FB account except I have to for my church.

    I admit to taking a peek to see the FB convos that Jason provokes, and in this one specfically, he calls out RCism as much healthier than where he came from (read: reformed protism).

    It’s interesting, and since I kept listening to DXP after you did, know that DXP is just an extension of his proseltyzing to find followers who will join him out of Calvinism and into Roman Catholicism.

    In other words #samestuffdifferentday

    and I did let Bryan know he needs to update his website. What can i say, Here to serve, yo.

    next?

    Like

  4. They also now moderate comments on drunkexpastors, so the only open forum where jason currently resides is his John Steinbeck blog heavyforthevintgae and of course, facebook.

    What was interesting to me when I stopped listening to facebook is how much I can become informed of hwat is going on on social media. The drunks remind me of taylor swift, they really have this social media stuff down, and stay on top of things. Oh, and I don’t watch Game of Thrones, so I was quickly the odd man out when Kenneth Winsmann and Christian starting talking about Denarys and dragons or whatnot. So yeah, same stuff different day.

    Like

  5. *stopped listening to dxp

    i meant to convey that they spend a lot of time on social media, listening to their podcast helped me have conversations with the missus, who usually stays on top of the trending topics as well. I’m a dunce otherwise, so dxp does/did have that value. but i don’t really have the time for a 2+ hour weekly podcast, too many comments, sorry guys.

    Like

  6. AB,

    “It’s interesting, and since I kept listening to DXP after you did, know that DXP is just an extension of his proseltyzing to find followers who will join him out of Calvinism and into Roman Catholicism.”

    Ha! This made me laugh.

    “They also now moderate comments on drunkexpastors…”

    This is news to me.

    “but i don’t really have the time for a 2+ hour weekly podcast”

    1 out of 46 broke the 2 hour barrier.

    Like

  7. Christian,

    Good to hear from you! Allow me to post with my full name and online persona, seeing as we are graced by your presence 🙂

    If you are not moderated (I thought something someone said in one of the convos) then mea cupla.

    As for the 2 hour thing, I recall when I listened it was usually at least 90 minutes and it probably averaged about the 1:45 minute mark. I certainly spent more than 2 hours a week engaged with you because I also commented at your blog quite a bit. Remember all that about contraception? Imagine a protestant coming into a roman catholic blog fighting them all off with a stick trying to promote the idea that condoms aren’t sinful. You think what I did with you guys was easy? Come on, I was trying to help you out, and I even offered my serviced to go after @dickbushhere but you said you have it well under control.

    I enjoyed my time over there, the fact is, my time in religious podcasts and scripture squeezes the already limited time I have. I wish you well, you guys handled yourself well on bad christian podcast dot com #83. Jason and all the called to communion guys wish to highlight their former calvinist credentials as they seek to explain to the wider world what calvinists believe. However, it’ll only ever go so far, and people who actually are calvinists will always be seeking to provide the viewpoint from our perspective as we live out that life each day.

    Nothing you don’t already know, by the time you were my age (33), you were still a Christian, is my understanding. I hope things work out for you and Jason as you see fit. Tell Jason to come comment over here sometime, I’ll stick up for him as I did in the past on greenbaggins and other places where he got beat up.

    Grace ane peace.

    Like

  8. Hi Andrew,

    I just didn’t want to be misrepresented. 😉

    The podcasts are definitely long, but not 2+ hours.

    We don’t moderate comments. New commenters have to be approved to make sure they’re not spam and comments with a lot of links needed approval (also for spam) but we even turned that off.

    As far as referring to DXP as a “catholic blog,” the agnostics, protestants, and atheists we have commenting would be upset to hear it referred to as such. I’ll admit that the 2 or 3 Catholic commenters do seem to be pretty verbose. I’ve seen you fall into that category before though too. 🙂

    I’m all for everyone providing their own viewpoint on things, whether it’s Calvinists or Agnostics. 🙂

    I haven’t been here in a while. I was just interested in watching OL have a collective orgasm at CCC being turned off. Ha!

    I wish you guys well too.

    Like

  9. I thoroughly disagree (with Rubio’s opposition to gay marriage), being raised in a Catholic family, raising a Catholic family, mainstream Catholic – well, the Baltimore catechism, to get back to our hometown of Baltimore, was what we were raised on.

    I saw this quote. It doesn’t even make any sense.

    Well, to Democrats I guess, the blind leading the stupid.

    Does Jason sound here like he understands he’s in the Roman Catholic fringe?

    No.

    As you’ve probably figured out, I have decided to turn off the comments feature here at Creed Code Cult. While the site gets over 1,000 page views from 400+ unique visitors per day, I have found that, when left under-moderated, I can’t depend on some of the participants to maintain a civil level of discourse.

    He sounds like he realizes his own self-appointed gatekeeper, for whom nothing is out of bounds and who hijacks every discussion, makes his religion look so bad, he’s shuttering the place.

    when Jason writes, “When ideas eclipse people, and when being right obscures being loving, everyone loses. Love God and love your neighbor. This is the Law and the Prophets,” wouldn’t that have been a reason to remain Presbyterian?

    Clearly not. See above. ;=-)

    Like

  10. Erik,

    Robert would know best what those convos are like. Maybe Robert can explain a little about what goes on there.

    And for some reason, on that monster 2.7k thread, Kenneth wanted me to box someone named “Debbie” I really don’t get what goes on there:

    KENNETH WINSMANN May 4, 2015 at 12:33 am
    Is anyone else bored with predestination yet? What a snooze fest. Speaking of snooze fests I paid 100 bucks to watch that AWFUL “fight of the century”. If God ordained that before the foundation of the world I will demand an explanation in heaven. I would rather have seen Jim and Kevin in the ring. I would have payed DOUBLE to see Jim and Kevin duke it out. The PPV I would pay a thousand dollars to watch would look like this….
    Undercard:
    Debbie vs Andrew Buckingham
    Wosbald VS Eric W
    Jim VS Kevin
    Robert VS Jonathan Prejean
    Main Event:
    Bryan Cross VS Daryl Hart
    Co Main Event:
    Jason Stellman VS James White

    Like

  11. Erik Charter
    Posted June 3, 2015 at 4:16 pm | Permalink
    Tom,

    I haven’t spent much time there. Who is “his own self-appointed gatekeeper”?

    Erik Charter
    Posted June 3, 2015 at 4:18 pm | Permalink
    The last post with comments has 2,727 of them. Wow.

    Is that Catholics arguing with Catholics or Prots arguing with Catholics?

    Dunno. Took a quick peek and fled. Probably like a lot of people do here. ;[-)

    Like

  12. From what I can tell, Kevin also posts at greenbaggins, has perhaps a relative that posted here, Eric W, Robert, Darryl, and James White are the protestants that Kenneth wants to see fight the catholics, who appear to be Debbie, Jonathan Prejean, Wosbald, Jim, Bryan Cross, and Jason Stellman.

    What we really need is someone who engages out there regularly to give us their inside opinion. I don’t think I’ve posted there in maybe 18 months, so how my name got on Kenneth’s desired list of boxers is beyond my comprehension. Kenneth, care to chime in?

    Like

  13. Well, that’s a revoltin’ development. What will we talk about now?

    Maybe the reality hit 500 years or so ago? We don’t really agree!

    Nice blog otherwise. Loved the post on righteousness like a cloak. …or white bathrobe.

    Like

  14. Mrs Webfoot,

    No doubt this kind of stuff is right up your alley too, take a look:

    One thing I have begun to notice — especially after starting to fall in love with G.K. Chesterton about five years ago — is how practically and ecclesiologically atheistic Protestantism seems from a Catholic perspective.

    Christian Kingery a few comments up of DrunkExPastors (which is Jason’s current endeavor, now having left CCC) believes that this website (oldlife dot org) is currenlty experiencing an orgasm at this news, and the reason he’s here posting is to watch the orgasm, per his words.

    Ain’t the internet peachy?

    Like

  15. Christian,

    I’m not sure what I’m more interested to know more about.

    What an internet website having an orgasm looks like, since you brought that up. Or why you want to watch such a thing.

    Am I supposed to put emoticons in this comment box?

    Thoughts?

    Like

  16. Wait – I’m confused. Was Jason Stellman ever an official apologist for the RC? I thought he just did because all the cool kids were doing it.

    Like

  17. Seth,

    No, I was never “an official apologist for the RC,” but then, I never claimed to be. And if I did what the cool kids do, I’d be at an urban church called “Mosaic Vintage Jesus Gathering” wandering a prayer labyrinth.

    Dick Bush out.

    Like

  18. Jason,

    Come on. You made Darryl’s day showing up at oldlife. You’re too kind.

    Hey how about this. One day a year (let’s say the opening day of OPC GA),we call a Christmas Truce between prots and caths. We drink beer together. Sip chardonnay, exchange pleasantries, speak of our favorite Wire scenes, talk of surf and gold, and light up an extra cigar.

    Then, the next day, its papal infallibility and alien forensic righteousness. But I say just until the sun goes down, there’s no Tetzel. No Luther.

    Float it to Frank, I’ll send mine to the GA next year. Let’s make it official, what do you say?

    Like

  19. Reality?
    If it won, it would look like this:

    You can find me at Heavy for the Vintage and at Drunk Ex-Pastors While because my days as delusion that I was an official apologist for the faith are over, my faith is still very much alive (albeit expressed differently nowadays).

    Tom could clearly handle being webmaster of CCC based on remarks like this:

    Well, to Democrats I guess, the blind leading the stupid.

    Hey, it’s a tough job Tom, but J clearly is not up to it, (the delirius tremens post conversion hallucination attacks seem to be coming more frequently these days.)

    Besides when you say,

    He sounds like he realizes his own self-appointed gatekeeper, for whom nothing is out of bounds and who hijacks every discussion, makes his religion look so bad, he’s shuttering the place.

    that means you’re thinking of taking our very own ____ over there to help vet the three comments allowed and make the prots look like stupid blatherers right?

    Right?

    Like

  20. Jason – I thought you said: While my days as an official apologist for the faith are over…

    Personally, I think the Sedevacantists are the true cool kids. Totally an underground movement, man.

    Like

  21. And Bub,

    They are always looking for material for their podcast. You can follow all of their thoughts, I’m sure they have a facebook page with hundreds of followers, and twitter handle @drunkexpastors, so yeah, welcome to the wild wild west of the interwebs. If one doesn’t like verbosity, TWTR is the way to go.

    #samestuffdifferentday

    Like

  22. Sorry, 1,929 likes on facebook. I don’t want to short change you guys, Christian and Jason.

    Way to go, love the category, entertainers.

    Best to you on our endeavors, fellas.

    Like

  23. Gotta get my post count up.

    So according to Nancy’s Romanism, gay marriage is okay and according to Rubio’s, it’s not.

    What happened to the paradigm?

    Like

  24. Robert,

    attaboy!

    With CCC closed until further notice, hopefully we see more of you round these parts.

    You made your mark, man.

    Grace and peace.

    Like

  25. By way of contrast to The Drunks, our church has 81 likes, it ain’t as much at Stelly and his crew, but it is somfin!

    Enough all about me. Our podcast sermons are much shorter than the 100+ plus DXPs, check us out if you are so inclined, we are going through Ecclesiastes right now. Grace and peace. Over my comment limit. Who’s next?

    Like

  26. Speaking of reality, here is a cradle on why she stays Roman Catholic despite all pot holes and speed bumps:

    I remain within, and love, the Catholic Church because it is a church that has lived and wrestled within the mystery of the shadow lands ever since an innocent man was arrested, sentenced and crucified, while the keeper of “the keys” denied him, and his first priests ran away. Through 2,000 imperfect — sometimes glorious, sometimes heinous — years, the church has contemplated and manifested the truth that dark and light, innocence and guilt, justice and injustice all share a kinship, one that waves back and forth like wind-stirred wheat in a field, churning toward something — as yet — unknowable.

    Like

  27. Andrew,

    Sorry, 1,929 likes on facebook. I don’t want to short change you guys, Christian and Jason.

    Appreciate that. 1,934 now. 😉

    …love the category, entertainers.

    That’s the only goal I can remember us having…unless Jason isn’t telling me something.

    Do I get 3 comments per day or per post?

    Like

  28. Christian,

    You get as many comments as you want, don’t worry about it.

    Look, I’ve been following Jason Stellman since before he was Roman Catholic. So I told you out on a comment thread how I saw you were recycling material (you used somewhat un-Christian language with me in your response :-P) so yeah, I interpret the podcast where your best friend from childhood as an extension of desiring to win christians unsure in their convictions over to the Roman Catholic church. But I know that’s not how you publicize yourself, nor how you want to be represented.

    I think Jason is listening in here, so allow me to be completely candid – I wish the best for you and your endeavor, but as a business man, I can not see the ability to monetize this endeavor as especially viable. I could be wrong, your pod could continue to gain followers. But I think Jason needs to start to settle into a lifestyle away from the religious industry al together and rather find another line of work. It’s really hard to make it, even for committed christians and clergy such as the pastor we are supporting, or anyone looking to make a living in religion (you know this, you call yourself an “ex pastor” after all).

    So that’s my two sense about what you guys are doing, I thought Jason’s endeavor to sell cars was good, and my heart literally sunk listening to your podcast to find out he lost his job. I know I’m a sap for hard luck cases, but that’s a real drag, I’ve had my own job stresses so I can relate.

    I don’t want to be patronizing, but while I have you, I just wanted to tell you that. I sent Jason a job opportunity in the medical field that I thought he should pursue, my wife is currenlty taking classes to receive her certification in that field. It’s not easy news to hear, that one needs to move on, and i could be wrong. But I write as a deacon in Christ’s church (you know, the deacon from the wire), although I know nothing of Jason’s personal financial situation other that what he wrote on HFTV, CCC, or DXP.

    I could keep going, but anything else you want to know more about me, or my opinions, other than comment counts 😛

    Grace and peace,
    Andrew Buckingham

    Like

  29. And I really do like you guys, so my heart is happy when you show up.

    I’ll send you another linkedin request to be a connection no pressure to join, but you guys are funny and I would keep listening if other stuff didn’t crowd out my already full plate. No joke,

    linkedin[dot]com/in/andrewbuckingham1

    If you’re ever in the bay area, ping me, we’ll grab a pint after I give you a golf lesson 😛

    Gotta run,
    Andrew

    Like

  30. Andrew,

    Thanks for the kind words.

    Everyone recycles material. I’m quite clearly no Aristotle or Plato, so I doubt I’ll ever say anything truly original. However, the things I say are my thoughts, and sometimes they speak to someone and sometimes they piss someone off and sometimes they sound like complete nonsense. I have no problem with that.

    As far as our purpose goes, our only goal was to record our conversations, which we’ve had for decades. Very little is different in the podcast than it is in our personal conversations. Many times we even continue our conversations once the podcast is over. Much to our surprise, people liked listening, and people even started asking how they could support our endeavor. We have no idea what will happen with it and neither one of us depend on it for a job. It’s really just a hobby we enjoy. As for our purpose, you can speculate all you want, but I can assure you it’s entertainment. I’m not sure why we would be deceptive about that.

    I wish you the best, Andrew!

    Christian

    Like

  31. Christian, Not on FB, only on it to promote my chruch and be the admin there.

    I only reside currently on twtr and google+, but thank you for the invite to be on FB. I’ll try to listen in on your podcast now and again, it was entertaining while I was around. 3 comments a day is great, best thing that happened to this place. It’s for the peace of us, the poor interlocutors, for real. There’s always tomorrow or the next day, as regards these blogs convos. Take care.

    Like

  32. Seth:

    Jason – I thought you said: While my days as an official apologist for the faith are over…

    I did. You may remember I was an ordained PCA minister from ’04 – ’12. It is now 2015.

    Andrew:

    Hey how about this. One day a year (let’s say the opening day of OPC GA),we call a Christmas Truce between prots and caths. We drink beer together. Sip chardonnay, exchange pleasantries, speak of our favorite Wire scenes, talk of surf and gold, and light up an extra cigar.

    Then, the next day, its papal infallibility and alien forensic righteousness. But I say just until the sun goes down, there’s no Tetzel. No Luther.

    Float it to Frank, I’ll send mine to the GA next year. Let’s make it official, what do you say?

    The thing you fail to realize about me these days is that I would drink beer, exchange pleasantries, and talk about The Wire every day of the year with you guys. But you’d have to take me at my word first when I say I’m not really interested in religious warfare anymore!

    Bubba (your re-wording of my statement reads):

    You can find me at Heavy for the Vintage and at Drunk Ex-Pastors because my delusion that I was an official apologist for the faith are over, my faith is still very much alive (albeit expressed differently nowadays).

    See above. And I thought it was Catholics who insist that the idea that “Reformed ministry is official” is delusional?

    PS – Maybe DXP should interview someone here for the podcast? Any takers?

    Like

  33. Jason,

    The thing you fail to realize about me these days is that I would drink beer, exchange pleasantries, and talk about The Wire every day of the year with you guys. But you’d have to take me at my word first when I say I’m not really interested in religious warfare anymore!

    I actually am off to golf with my boss’s boss, otherwise, we could chat more.

    I mean what i say – I have your back anytime you want to post out here and talk with us. I mean it, erik charter does too, you know it!

    gotta run

    Like

  34. Jason,

    If you’re taking suggestions here are a few of mine–though I haven’t listened to DXP for months:

    1. Bryan Cross: In this two part series Bryan first talks about the virtues of the F-bomb in his paradigm. In the second part (after Christian has had a few too many) Bryan and Christian discuss agnosticism vs. Christianity. Every time the phrase “compatible with what I’ve said” is used, Jason has to take a shot.

    2. Andrew B.: The episode lasts as long as Andrew B. is able to stay on point (Goodbye 2 hour podcasts, hello 2 minute podcasts!)

    3. Erick: The air is cleared on the podcast (as Erick has already said his piece on previous interactions) and this episode focuses on the virtues of wealth redistribution.

    Like

  35. Jason, we just finished season 4, carver couldn’t take care of randy, but I’m telling you, anytime you want to come back over here, I won’t let the reformed guys beat you up. Just place nice when talking reformed protism on your blog and podcast.

    when you walk through the garden....you better watch your back 🙂

    Grace and peace amigo.

    Like

  36. Jason and/or Christian,

    If you guys want to discuss cath/prot relations, drunkexpastors, oldlife theological society, darryl’s cats, jason’s surf life, or christian’s son’s soccer tournaments, or my views on three comments per day, or anything else, this thread is yours for the taking. I can chat intermittingly in between work revs looking at excel spreadsheets. I saw you put a new drunkexpastors podcast up as you usually do on monday mornings. you guys mention “some old blog” (meaning this one) back when i listened to you, i always fear being made the spectacle of another person’s podcast, so my discussions with you will be somewhat reserved. I argued over 3 years ago with ross of that podcast, always afraid of how i might be treated.

    i’ve heard how you treated erik charter in your pod. maybe some of that was deserved, but yeah, i would not be comfortable going on your podcast, and in fact, i would advise anyone reading this thread to avoid jason’s request to go on his show, and instead if one is interested, just listen in to them and pay attention, but don’t participate.

    Part of the problem, and why i won’t go on, is Jason, your calvinist credentials, even if you are 3 years out, leave you in a very powerful position, one that few of us can go up against. You were a pastor in the PCA for goodness sake. even 10 years after your conversion in 2012, you will be able to tout your 8+ years or whatever as a pastor.

    wish you guys well, and hopefully you can keep failing in your goal (haha) and instead you turn people to Christ, instead of to anyone else.

    grace and peace. i’m around, but not on your podcast or comment boxes, but here, in dgh’s playground.

    anyone hungry for chit chat?

    Like

  37. PS or find me in my various online incarnations.

    DGH, glad we got JJS to come back to OLTS, IMHO.

    FWIW,

    Grace and peace.

    Next.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s