Straights You can Live With

Since I’m on the road I am (all about meEEEE!) listening to more national public media than to sports talk radio. That means I have heard a lot about how the United States took three big steps forward this past week. The Confederate Flag is now a disgrace. Government health insurance survived and millions of Americans are on the way to better lives. And gay marriage is now legal everywhere in the United States. I wonder if those who think all this shows the United States is headed in the right direction know where this progressive road is going. A world free of prejudice and filled with equality and justice? Isn’t that kind of like heaven? Meanwhile, the most vociferous opponents think at least Friday’s decision about gay marriage proves the United States is on the road to hell (which of course it is and always has been since only the redeemed are on the road to heaven).

Meanwhile (as a different Dan) pointed out, Islamists yesterday pulled off three different attacks. The most gruesome may have been the assault in France that left a man beheaded.

I wonder how far the proponents of progress are willing to go. Do they really think that the folks who wave the Confederate Flag or those who worship in churches that won’t marry gays are as threatening to progress as Islamic terrorists? Or would they rather live with Crackers and Bible-Thumpers who may bark a lot but seldom bite? And when Jihad comes to the United States, are the married gay couples going to fight? Or might they need some help from their straight opponents?

Conversely, do the Christians who do cartwheels of terror over the news of militant Islam view gay activists as as threatening as married gay couples? Or might Christians not recognize certain shared civil assumptions among the proponents of gay marriage?

Either way, some Christian voices can be heard on NPR who are not shrill but defend the freedoms of Christians to follow their consciences.

The sky may be falling, but it’s only a drizzle in the United States.

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33 thoughts on “Straights You can Live With

  1. I found your article brilliant and full of love for all. I’m an atheist, homosexual, married, navy vet. I love my countrymen. Right/Left none has expressed Friday’s SCOTUS decision with the thoughtfulness you did. Thank you. I will make your books part of my reading regime and as possible share with others. Be well.

    Troy Albrecht

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  2. NPR = Liberal.

    (Never mind that it’s on my presets, too).

    I’m not driving a Subaru with a ski rack on top, though.

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  3. Darryl’s market is exapanding:

    Atheist

    Homosexual

    Married

    Navy Vet

    Wasn’t that one of the Village People?

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  4. How soon they forget.

    I’m signing off, but before I do I want to offer sincere apologies to those I’ve been rude and obnoxious to over the years – Richard Smith, Bryan Cross, Tom Van Dyke, Kenneth Winsmann, Cletus Van Damme, Curt Day, Doug Sowers, other adversaries I’ve forgotten, and allies who I’ve flared up against far too often. I sincerely apologize and hope the best for all of you in the future. I have learned a lot from everyone and have had the opportunity to think about a lot of critical theological issues and issues in the Christian life. That life, as we all know, is a marathon, not a sprint, with hills and valleys all along the way.

    It would be inappropriate to leave you all with anything other than a Steely Dan video. One that, respectfully, contains my truest intentions at this point:

    And with that, he was gone.

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  5. D. G. Hart
    Posted June 27, 2015 at 2:47 pm | Permalink
    vd, t, well, everyone is going to heaven, right? Beautiful.

    We hope and pray all will be saved, Butch. Well, many of us do. In the meantime, there are a lot of kids who are in for a lot more pain and confusion than we’d wish for them because of this.

    As for you r2k-ers, just keep your head down and your mouth shut. God loves lukewarm water.

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  6. Darryl,

    Hey, I paid my fine. I learned yesterday that the recipient tore up the check, though.

    And I haven’t been mean to one of those guys since I left. Well, Tom maybe, but we get along alright.

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  7. The reason I poke you guys (primarily Darryl, Muddy, & Zrim) is that the only way to get you out of your smug, self-satisfied, above-it-all detachment and ironic posture is to rile you up a bit. Occasionally at that point you’ll say something sincere that reveals what you really think. Those conversations are interesting.

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  8. “…And when Jihad comes to the United States, are the married gay couples going to fight? Or might they need some help from their straight opponents?…”

    This is a question I’ve been asking for quite a while now. The Islamists have been unusually quiet during this fight over gay rights, gay marriage, etc. Yet, we all know fully well that their religious beliefs forbids same-sex relationships under the penalty of death. So…if the U.S. allows this sort of thing to occur and grow (i.e., we’ll HAVE to provide this and that sort of service, marriage ceremony, etc. to same-sex couples, or else) based on the recent SCOTUS decision, but at that same time encourages radical geo-political religions like Islam to grow and prosper, where do the two intersect and conflict? Somewhere down the road we’re going to find out, one way or the other.

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  9. Diffy Dan – no, I haven’t seen that. Thanks for the link. It’s disgusting, but should serve to underscore the point I was trying to make. While I’m not sure that I’d classify what the author of that web posting as “schadenfreude,” I do think we (in the West) can’t have it both ways, even though that’s exactly what the Leftists seem to think we should. As I said, only time will tell. Hopefully, I and my spouse will be gone by that time, but I fear for my kids and grandkids; they’re likely to be living in a very difficult period of time.

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  10. Erik,

    You are being rude to Troy. He has a right to comment here. I like having the opportunity to talk to someone with a different point of view. We should be able to civilly discuss, without having to put up with rude remarks. You keep talking about how things get out of hand and how you want rigorous conversation, but then you mock someone new.

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  11. George, I thought living through the cold war was traumatic enough, but it looks like Samuel Huntington was right and we are going to have to live through a clash of civilizations. I hope I’m wrong. In that vein, if that is where we find ourselves, then our domestic political decisions about pelvic issues will definitely feed back to us in unexpected ways.

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  12. Dan – over at the Riddleblog, Kim has been reviewing several books, from the ill-fated after-effects of WW1 to the way the European countries were divided up at Versailles. It would appear from these readings that the stage which is now set has been under development long since. The “cold war,” which I’m beginning to think of retroactively as a somewhat imaginary manifestation of the federal U.S. government (even though we all lived through the air raid drills, etc. during those years as youths) vs. what the U.S.S.R. was truly capable of (or willing to commit to). BUT, one of the outcomes of that 100 year period (since WW1) definitely has been the rise of ISIS and it’s imposition of Sharia law onto each and every culture it encapsulates. Fasten your seat belt.

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  13. I don’t know how DGH comes up with those pictures for his blog threads, but I always become intrigued by and usually get a good yuck or two out of them. In the case of this one, I chased down the WWII Disney propaganda cartoon from 1943 and found it on YouTube (of course). Loved every minute of it!

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  14. George, the Andelman book that KR reviews has been recommended to me, but I haven’t got around to it yet. If you want to read something a little bit out of the mainstream on the Cold War, you might try The Fifty Year Wound by Derek Leebaert.

    That all of these trends we see in today’s news have the potential to make strange, unexpected, appalling and sometimes ,”you can’t make this stuff up ” ways I guess goes without saying. Perhaps this will provide some comic relief. http://www.ijreview.com/2015/06/354979-walmart-not-make-customer-confederate-themed-cake-bake/

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  15. Dan – that’s a good one (unfortunately), but I liked DGH’s Disney Chicken Little cartoon better.

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  16. Following the ruling, TX A. General Ken Paxton: “Today’s ruling by five Justices of the U.S. Supreme Court marks a radical departure from countless generations of societal law and tradition. The impact of this opinion on our society and the familial fabric of our nation will be profound. Far from a victory for anyone, this is instead a dilution of marriage as a societal institution.”

    He also recommended all county clerks boy issue licenses yet. Of course some are ignoring that. But anyway, what are other folks states and their leaders doing to stand up for individual employees of the state and states rights?

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  17. DGH:

    The decision of the editor of my local dead tree news vehicle to devote multiple pages to the SSM decision and crickets to the terrorist attacks caused my jaws to tighten, but maybe I should cut the guy some slack. From this account, it seems like the same decision as to what was important pervaded social media.http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-off-stage-horror-amid-the-euphoria-1435355279

    Did you have Sam Huntington when you attended Harvard?

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  18. If only we could go back to the good old days of Ronald Reagan and no-fault divorce. That guy saved America (at least for a while) by nominating conservative judges to the Supreme Court.

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  19. diff Dan, no Huntington. The Div School covered government well enough, which is why I wear the Kennedy School of Government tie (Div School not having one).

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  20. TVD
    Posted June 27, 2015 at 3:14 pm | Permalink
    D. G. Hart
    Posted June 27, 2015 at 2:47 pm | Permalink
    vd, t, well, everyone is going to heaven, right? Beautiful.

    We hope and pray all will be saved, Butch. Well, many of us do. In the meantime, there are a lot of kids who are in for a lot more pain and confusion than we’d wish for them because of this.

    As for you r2k-ers, just keep your head down and your mouth shut. God loves lukewarm water.>>>>>

    Yes, I hope and pray that all will go to heaven. Yes, in the meantime there are a lot of kids who are left to try to figure out life all on their own.

    Will we pass by when we see them bruised and bloodied by the latest government sponsored social experiment?

    I can’t help but think of Jesus’ answer to the question of “Who is my neighbor?”

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  21. MichaelTX,

    I’m a Bammer (where they shut down a Mobile judge who tried to rule in favor of SSM) living in SC, but I really like what TX has had to say about the decision. And speaking of states rights, TX has been a republic at least once already.

    Here’s a statement from the governor:
    http://gov.texas.gov/news/press-release/21131?

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  22. “Meanwhile, the most vociferous opponents think at least Friday’s decision about gay marriage proves the United States is on the road to hell (which of course it is and always has been since only the redeemed are on the road to heaven).” – Yup. Exactly. How does a country get to heaven anyway? Also, we need not wait for God to judge “the nation” because of this decision, seems to me like the judgment started a LONG time ago.

    Like

  23. Gays you can watch Fox News with:

    Do you want to fight the Islamic State and the forces of Islamic extremist terrorism? I’ll tell you the best way to send a message to those masked gunmen in Iraq and Syria and to everyone else who gains power by sowing violence and fear. Just keep posting that second set of images [of a happy crowd celebrating the SCOTUS decision — RD]. Post them on Facebook and Twitter and Reddit and in comments all over the Internet. Send them to your friends and your family. Send them to your pen pal in France and your old roommate in Tunisia. Send them to strangers.

    Yes, it’s sappy. But this has always been the dream of America: a dream of freedom, of a land where no one would force their religious beliefs on anyone else. A land where all people would have the unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. A land where we could seek change peacefully and trust our laws and institutions to respond to our deepest hopes.

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  24. How is this different from the PCUSA?

    Over the weekend, the University of San Francisco (USF), a Jesuit Catholic university, used its Twitter and Facebook accounts to celebrate the San Francisco Pride Parade and the recent 5-4 decision in Obergefell v. Hodges, which legalized same-sex marriage in the United States.

    “Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage nationwide in wake of #SFPride-@USF_LTMC #LoveWins,” read one of the messages from USF’s official Twitter account on Friday. The message was accompanied by a photo of the California State Capitol lit up in rainbow colors.

    “I proudly attend a university that supports the LGBTQ community #Pride #USFCA #SF @usfca,” read a tweet from the University. Another retweet featured the USF mascot at the San Francisco Pride Parade, surrounded by several University students.

    Ann-Marie Devine, senior director of media relations at USF, told Campus Reform that the University did not have an official statement on the Supreme Court ruling, but did not deny the University messages in support of the decision. Devine told The Cardinal Newman Society that she was looking into the matter, but no further response was received.

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  25. And some you can’t live with:

    It’s been a difficult few days for those of us Catholics who support gay marriage.

    Much of America spent the weekend in celebration. Snapchat, Instagram, and Twitter filled up with rainbow flags and ecstatic tweets and couples hugging and loving. Parents of gay children went on TV and wept. Their sons and daughters, finally, are equals. The White House was drenched in rainbow colors and the president hailed this forward march in civil rights.

    Meanwhile, some in the American Catholic hierarchy recoiled, scowled, and disapproved.

    Some non-Catholic friends and co-workers dared ask: How can we who support gay rights remain in a Church that appears so bigoted, backward, blind?

    The question was particularly poignant, even painful, when asked by our own children.

    My children grew up Catholic in liberal Massachusetts, which legalized gay marriage in 2004. They grew up with playdates and birthday overnights and graduation parties in the homes of gay parents, wonderful parents with mini-vans and work-balance struggles and sleepless nights fretting over college bills. My children grew up with friends and varsity teammates and college roommates who were openly gay. No longer a big deal.

    But millions of young Americans far, far from Massachusetts cheered for the United States Supreme Court decision Friday. And many young Catholics among them struggled to understand the prejudice of those who profess to follow Jesus Christ.

    How can Archbishop Joseph Kurtz, president of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, call the US Supreme Court’s marriage decision “profoundly immoral and unjust” and a “tragic error?”

    How can Boston’s Cardinal Sean O’Malley be “saddened?” “Certainly every citizen of this land, regardless of their sexual orientation, deserves to be respected in their personal and civic life,” O’Malley said in a statement. Leave it to a teenager to point out the illogic there: O’Malley cannot claim to respect gays in their personal and civic life when he would deny them the fundamental civic right every other person enjoys: to marry whomever they chose.

    These young egalitarians have been taught that we’re all equal. Men and women. Black and white. Gays and straights. Polls show most believe it. But they look at the Church and see an institution treating both women and gays as lesser human beings.

    As Jesuit priest and author the Rev. James Martin wrote on his Facebook page after Friday’s court decision, “No issue brings out so much hatred from so many Catholics as homosexuality.” And he is so right. “Even after over 25 years as a Jesuit, the level of hatred around homosexuality is nearly unbelievable to me, especially when I think of all of the wonderful LGBT friends I have.”

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  26. The difference between the RCUSA and the PCUSA is that Catholics will be judged much more severely.

    Hardin was a great American Jesuit. Many young jesuits are quite orthodox. Here is another one, who advocates the right use of anger: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/07/jesuit-use-anger-as-weapon-against-evil.html?m=1

    The silliness will come to an end. Give it another 15 years, max- that’s what I call a reasonable hope. Many dissenters will leave the Church rather than become truly Catholic, unfortunately.

    Like

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